FDXLAG

Glad to see your beliefs are flexible. You now have flyers permission to stay at FDX.

vonFlieger

I think it is ludicrous to say we are at the peak....that is like saying you came in first in a race only you ran. We are top dog because everyone else got screwed in the post 9/11 fall out. Being number one by default, while better than being last, still is not where we should be.

To the question of closed shop. ALPA might not sign off on contract removing that clause; but if ALPA National chooses to not see us as equals, we can always kick them off the property. Not advocating that, but there are always options. Just tired of being a second class citizen.

I am sure I will get blasted by the "all knowing, wiser than me types" because I do not have the required number of posts to be considered in the club. Before you roll in guns hot, I challenge you to go to the Jetflyers page on facebook and do it using your real name and identity. I don't mind having different opinions, if we all had the same opinions that would be no fun, I just hate the elitist attitude and personal attacks that come under the veil of anonymity on here.

Good Beer

He just keeps shouting until you get sick of posting...

iarapilot

And I suppose you will pick the subjects. I can give you some suggestions!

olly

Read the book. The earliest example of "unionized" is our forebearers the mail carriers. Many died in bad wx accdients. Management pushed pilots, threatened termination if a guy refused to fly in freezing rain etc, Eventually these initial pilots decided to hang together or hang individually. So they unionized, when the "boss" get in that airlane & fly to x, or your fired they all refused (after seeingmnay of their peers killed, there are many many examples, this is what started ALPA.

Being unionized did not prevent the Bk & its adverse effects, but in the most regulated industry in the US politics matter. The book will detail quite clearly where, how & why it does, and illuminates where ALPA had an effect & didn't.

There is no panacea promised land. Cargo guys are a minority at ALPA, and although "one level of safety" is a mantra, sometimes decisions are made for the good of the majority vs abstention for all in an endeavor that may not be realistic.

The new 117 rules are an example. I personally think the carvbe out is ludicrous, I even wrote my congressman and feciously asked that since we have different fatigue rules, would he sponsor different BAC limit rules. Big ALPA participated in the NPRM sausage making- unfortunately lobbies with much more financial resources than ALPAs enabled the cargo cutout. I do not believe ALPA could then tell the FAA, it's all or none, the NPRM was promulgated.

However, a PAC enables a seat & a voice to back the staffers & support to get a seat in teh NPRM sausage making & access to supporting memebers. To think that the process got as far as it did without active solicitation for support is naive about how washington works.

We'll never win them all, corporations outspend unions >10:1 lobbying, with legal staffs who can prolong the process until they bleed you of resources until you give up.

The most effective resource we can muster is to garner support by legislators that will slisten and support our issues. This will not hapen by osmosis.

FXDX

I have read the book. Your post makes my point. The union can't prevent bankruptcies and can't prevent furloughs.

I am in the union and believe that we are better off with one than without one right now, but I also believe that our union screwed us on age 60 and we screwed ourselves on the agency shop clause.

That said, I don't believe in giving the union PAC any money to continue to lobby against my core values and degrade my career progression any further. If it makes you feel any better I don't give money to any political candidates, as I don't think any of them are really interested in anything but lining their own pockets. The great thing about this country is it is still free (for now) and you may give to your heart's content to whomever you choose.

The OP could simply delete the solicitation from ALPA PAC as I did, but the ensuing discourse has been illuminating, so I'm glad he brought it up.

PastV1

Without Agency shop how many "one item" people would not give any money to support the union?

FXDX

My guess is fewer than the number that were grandfathered as non members.

FXDX

We had 97% voluntary membership before agency shop and the big screw job. I think we were holding our own. Much stronger message to the company than forced participation in my opinion, and the unity (what a shock!) was much better. Hmmmmmm.

Laughing_Jakal

It scares me when I find LAG to be in agreement with my thoughts. I agree with this 100%. Quite frankly, I would be better off financially if I didn't lose a large portion of an inheritance due to confiscatory taxes, and feel the need to put my childred in private school. If I could trade that money (already gone) and never had another pay raise......I'd be better off by a long shot. Just my personal situation.

I find it laughable, when someone derides me because this is my "first airline". (With all due respect to some of my best friends with four airline uniforms in their closets). We might be smarter than you think. Maybe we did due diligence and turned down other offers (Fact). Maybe we were a little bit lucky (Fact). But honestly, its a little sanctimonious to come here and tell us we are unable to analyze an employment situation because we had the temerity to make a good choice the first time.

It's like a guy with multiple ex-wives telling a guy in a long-term successful marriage that he knows the key to a good relationship. You can tell me what you did wrong....but don't tell me I'm not smart enough to know the score. Getting kicked in the teeth multiple times may teach you what you did wrong each time, but doesn't make you a good fighter.

I hope to be one of those naive "first airline pilots" for another 12 years. I'm not going to tease you about your spelling, because you might be a first time privilege speller!

I was a military pilot....for 12 years.....I am, and have been for another 12 years a civilian pilot. This is my career....and by the way.....you don't get what you contribute or pay for from the union. You get what the union negotiates. Supporting the union, either by sweat, dollars, or both is a business investment. I'm not dull enough to get enjoyment out of it.....it's business.......and a career....my hobbies are a lot more fun