PicklePausePull

My story has been told to many pilots in my domicile. Moreover, it was told in our former rep's report to the MEC. Albie should have had and opportunity to read that report when he was part of the movers and shakers. I suspect if I relayed my experience here, it would not change your opinion.

PicklePausePull

So, let me see if I understand your "logic." The rep is a lawyer commenting on our lawyers' failure to support our pilots in numerous grievances over a multi-year period. Yet, his credibility is worth no more than the man on the street, even though he has professional training and experience in the legal profession, because you know one lousy lawyer who happens to be your cousin. Wow. Impeccable logic.

Tuck

Thanks for the well thought out comments Albie. I always considered you one of the best MEC members and value your opinion. I hope this new negotiating style proves fruitful for us all.

Albief15

Me too.

And PPP--nope...not a lawyer, and not even close. Not sayin' that area cannot be improved, just saying it was more complicated and there was more too it than I initially realized. Got a couple friends who HAVE passed the bar that are interested in helping, and hopefully they can both do some good work and get a more accurate read than I ever could.

Pakagecheck

My comparison to my cousin was to show the wide range of competence or knowledge in the profession. Of all professions, I personally think it has the widest gap. My cousin is by far the only lousy one I have known or dealt with. I'm not saying what your former rep said is true or not. I was addressing you (in my reading your response) calling out Albie because he potentially wasn't a lawyer so he wasn't as credible. Whether I agree(mostly) or disagree with many of Albie's post's I consider him reasonable and credible.

By your "logic" your rep is credible in reference to the grievances. Not sure but I think "our" lawyers were professionally trained and have experience in their trained profession so why aren't they credible also? My point is just because someone is a lawyer, doesn't make them an expert. As you can attest to since you were wrongfully represented.

PicklePausePull

Just because someone is not a lawyer doesn't give them any more, or even the same, credibility on legal matters than a lawyer. That is the point.

Without legal training, you wouldn't even know the appropriate questions to ask. You wouldn't know anything about procedure or precedence. You wouldn't know poor representation from adequate representation. I do not doubt Albie's sincerity, just his ability to recognize poor legal representation over a period of time versus our former rep who does have the requisite knowledge and experience.

4A2B

One thing thing that is a rather important when you try to compare the "normal" everyday legal processes we have in the USA with that of administering a CBA. The things your friend quotes as problems like procedure or precedence are simply not the same when you are looking at a contract grievance. When you get into firings and appeals the process probably more resembles normal law practice and that is one reason why the Union is more successful in defending individuals than winning grievances from what I know.

It is not an apples to apples comparison is what I hear and winning a CBA case takes language, intent and bargaining history otherwise it will be a loss. As far as whether or not ALPA's lawyers are good or not, I don't know, but I think you need to do your evaluation with these factors, they can't manufacture history and language. The burden of proof is largely on our backs in grievances, i.e. what specific CBA language was broken? Not a very east task when stuff not covered in the CBA does not make it a good case, just the opposite.

FDXLAG

Which is why we need more grievaces not less. If you lose at least you kniow where you stand.

Jetjok

Just because someone has a law degree, does not automatically make them the type of lawyer needed to perform the duties required of a lawyer representing a union group, either during formal negotiations or for the purposes of job protection during legal actions taken by the company. There are many types of law practiced out there and most have virtually nothing to do with the type of law protection that we require. Here's but a few:

Administrative, Civil Litigation, Constitutional, Corporate,
Commercial, Criminal, Environmental, Estate planning, Family, Immigration, Intellectual Property, International, Labor and Employment, Real Estate,
Securities, and let's not forget Tax law.

What matters most is experience, and that's experience, practiced in the type of law that we need. Personally I'd want someone whose been there, done that, and has the tee shirt.

JJ

FDXLAG

Yeah just because your quarterback is 0 for 12 is no reason to pull him now.