Tuck

I don't want to return to the DW days but I'm not so sure this "kinder, gentler" concept really has any merit. I guess many of you believe that this idea of "interim discussions" outside of Section 6 will be fruitful and either come up with some actual TAs or LOAs prior to a new CBA or will greatly reduce the amount of time spent in actual Section 6. Other than the NC Chair saying things are progressing what evidence do you have of this? Remember SS was elected in Apr09 - just a list of a few things at the top of my head that happened since then that might make you think the Company is not so interested in anything kinder or gentler
- 4a2b was still ongoing, as was all the questionable implementation (i.e. max reserve days, max carryover, no equality across fleets, etc)
- Company Safety gave out privileged info to FAA which Union argued against
- Company strongly attempting to discipline/terminate HKG pilots over confusing housing allowances
- Company abusing their rights regarding sick call verification in ANC
- length of time and negotiating capital it took to get ASAP and FOQA enacted
- Arbitrarily changing Reserve day form in ANC and LAX
- Lines have gotten worse and worse

These are just a few at the top of my head. You know Delta has a quarterly process of reviewing minor problems with their CBA and instituting changes outside of Section 6 - they've been doing this for sometime. So far we have lots of good discussions between the Union and Company but zero action....and in reality that's all that matters. At one point I thought the Company would throw the crew force a bone this month to encourage us to remain outside of Section 6 - that all went away when the NC put out their recommendation to the entire Crew Force - it was a done deal at that point and no bone necessary.

As I said before, I sincerely hope you guys are right that this new method of pleasant discussions will bear some fruit but I just don't see any evidence in the last 3 years that would lead me to believe this.

Why do you guys think differently? Albie I really value your comments and I'm wondering why you think this?

Busboy

Important thoughts coming............

Busboy

Measured business like approach? Not poking unless actually required? Well, it sure worked with FPA. Why wouldn't it work now?

And bonus...some big FPA guys got great management gigs, to boot!!

FDX represented on Capitol Hill? Are you kidding me? Can you say, "Cargo cutout"?

If I recall correctly, it wasn't that long ago that we were all demanding that 4A2b be fixed, before we agree to an FDA. Or anything be fixed, for that matter. But instead, what we got was a dissenting rep being scolded for explaining why he was going against the grain on our last LOA . And, dog and pony shows from our leadership on why we should vote for it. Here we are almost 3 years into the new regime, and what real progress has been made? How about the quality of our bidpacks? Or, the company's abuse of standby pairings during peak to limit adjustments? We do have a lot less DP's these days. But, it's certainly not due to better trips, is it? Have you ever called contract enforcement? It's like talking to an ACP. Why aren't we grieving more of this stuff? We have a grievance committee. We've already paid for the lawyers. Every report I read from our treasurer says we're under budget.

Maybe, we'd win only win 1 out of 10. Or, 1 out of 100. Better than not winning anything and just allowing it to become common practice.

I personally, don't give a crap who our leadership is. I don't care if it's SS cronies or DW cronies. I don't care if they tell me any of their secret information. I don't care if they kiss management's arse. I don't care if they punch them in the face. I don't care if they're paid 95hrs or 62 hrs. I don't care if they work at the office or from Platinum Plus.

What I do care about is seeing results. Real results. So far...I'm not impressed.

HDawg

Platinum Plus reopened...sweet!

Gunter

We have some real issues to address and I want those fixed too.

During the DW years I remember a failure to address work rules that some of us consider cornerstone in nature. Some we gave back then are on the list to fix now. One give back was revealed after the TA vote. We actually exchanged them for a watered down penalty grid, A380 pay rate, international bennies and a pay raise. I've seen a further stratification of the membership during his time. Some gained much and more gained little or basically nothing when the givebacks are considered. Is it hindsight that we had so much leverage at the time? Probably. But I thought it important to recap like you did for the last 3 years.

Oh yeah, FDA #1 was not negotiated, it was merely accepted. I was not only unimpressed, I thought it was an abdication of their basic responsibility to the membership.

I remember we grieved 4.A.2.b. and the 777 pay rate. We've also improved the FDAs. Success isn't a vegas odds thing. You don't get a 1 out of 100 chance every time. It's about choosing a battle you can win. I don't know what you're looking at but the things we lost during the last 3 years were done so in arbitration. We all gained something with the latest interim talks and 3% a year.

I do care who's in charge. If we have someone focused on what it takes to succeed it helps us avoid wasting resources on chasing windmills. Anger doesn't make a good union leader.

FDXLAG

I am with busboy. More grievances more often. I dont consider the 4A2b grievance a total loss. There are lines the company knows it cant cross now and hopefully in the contract after the contract after next we can move those line in a more sensible direction.

He!! the only logical way I can find out what the contract really means is to open it up on the company website and open those little scales of justice. Sure I have to read 45 pages to find out what one sentence in section 8.C.3.a.2.ii means.

There have been plenty of battles in the past that we have surrendered on before DT finished his first cup of tea. Accepted fares and ground transportation after you deviate are a couple of examples.

As to whether or not we will get a contract sooner because of current negotiations. IMHO no we wont, would we have gotten one sooner had we rejected the 3% no we wouldnt have. We will get a contract when the company wants something or needs the PR. Not a day sooner.

He!! I get accused of being angry and trying to screw my friends when I point out that C/O reduces Bid Line Guarantee hours available for everyone. So I dont expect a lot of crew force solidarity to force any company action.

skeebo2

On page 2 and again on page 5. Two people respond with ......................


Please someone tell me what .................means

I'm old it wasn't that long ago I had to ask what LOL meant.

The Walrus

Not positive, but I have always thought it was someone who began to post and then thought better of it.

If that is the case, all they have to do is hit the back button.

MD11Fr8Dog

Most likely they posted something then deleted the something they posted (using the edit button), needing at least 10 characters to replace the original post.

PicklePausePull

I agree wholeheartedly with Busboy.

Yet, here is what I don't understand. Some of the same voices on here who were adamant that we take the 3% are now griping again that our NC has not made any progress fixing the work rules, etc. I don't get it. We just told the company none of those issues matter as long as they pay us 3%. Which is it? We want work rules fixed or we want 3%? Well, we got our 3%. Good luck fixing any of the work rules now. There is no negotiating capital remaining. We gave it all away in FDA's, over 65, 777 biding, etc. And now we told the company we are not serious about fixing the contract so long as they pay us 3%.

I think we need to hire a professional law firm to advise us and negotiate on our behalf. We do a horrible job at it ourselves: Too many contradictory actions by the MEC. No real strategy I can see from our actions over the past three years.