Age 60 and the B-Fund
09-28-2006, 02:51 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Michael Vick's favorite animal
Posts: 267
First off my friend Cool down a bit.
ALPA changes it's tune? Who is ALPA? ALPA is 60 thousand Professional Airline Pilots.
Yes when the turmoil of the industry hit....things changed and so did opinions on the AGE 60 by those that were affected. Don't you think a person might change his mind when his Deferred Income was just reduced by 2/3rds or more.......Don't you ever change your mind? So if you think it is just Duane W and Denny D and few others who are making the policy, it just isn't so. There are MECs composed of a wide range in Age demographics yours included that are setting the course.
The IRS did not negotiate the B plan, individual MEC's did and other Unions too SWAPA, APA Teamsters Air Divison. But they must be within the laws of ERISA and IRS code 401. They were at the time, but the laws can change. Just like the AGE 60. ALPA just doesn't want wholesale changes without attempting to have a say an influnce the effects of the proposed change. What if they do? Yes ALPA will be there if the laws change but there is no guarantee of the outcome. They fought like hell to stop the distress terminations but were bashed by the Bankruptcy courts. They did manage to help sponsor the Airline Pension relief act. In my opinion, it was just a Band Aid on a gushing wound.....DID APA, IPA, SWAPA or the Teamster Airline Divison? Who else do you have? Not picking on the other Unions. They just don't have the Polictical backing ALPA does and true lately ALPA hasn't had much. Maybe we should give more to the ALPA PAC??
...........Remember when the IRS arbitrarily changed the IRS deduction limit?
I've been paying dues for as long as You. You are certainly are entitled to ***** and complain.......I do it myself on ocasion. But before you go blaming ALPA national look to your MEC personnel first. If you really feel strongly get a motion in your LEC, get a petition going. If as many people feel as you do, just maybe things can swing your way......
ALPA changes it's tune? Who is ALPA? ALPA is 60 thousand Professional Airline Pilots.
Yes when the turmoil of the industry hit....things changed and so did opinions on the AGE 60 by those that were affected. Don't you think a person might change his mind when his Deferred Income was just reduced by 2/3rds or more.......Don't you ever change your mind? So if you think it is just Duane W and Denny D and few others who are making the policy, it just isn't so. There are MECs composed of a wide range in Age demographics yours included that are setting the course.
The IRS did not negotiate the B plan, individual MEC's did and other Unions too SWAPA, APA Teamsters Air Divison. But they must be within the laws of ERISA and IRS code 401. They were at the time, but the laws can change. Just like the AGE 60. ALPA just doesn't want wholesale changes without attempting to have a say an influnce the effects of the proposed change. What if they do? Yes ALPA will be there if the laws change but there is no guarantee of the outcome. They fought like hell to stop the distress terminations but were bashed by the Bankruptcy courts. They did manage to help sponsor the Airline Pension relief act. In my opinion, it was just a Band Aid on a gushing wound.....DID APA, IPA, SWAPA or the Teamster Airline Divison? Who else do you have? Not picking on the other Unions. They just don't have the Polictical backing ALPA does and true lately ALPA hasn't had much. Maybe we should give more to the ALPA PAC??
...........Remember when the IRS arbitrarily changed the IRS deduction limit?
I've been paying dues for as long as You. You are certainly are entitled to ***** and complain.......I do it myself on ocasion. But before you go blaming ALPA national look to your MEC personnel first. If you really feel strongly get a motion in your LEC, get a petition going. If as many people feel as you do, just maybe things can swing your way......
09-28-2006, 02:59 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Michael Vick's favorite animal
Posts: 267
First off my friend Cool down a bit.
ALPA changes it's tune? Who is ALPA? ALPA is 60 thousand Professional Airline Pilots.
Yes when the turmoil of the industry hit....things changed and so did opinions on the AGE 60 by those that were affected. Don't you think a person might change his mind when his Deferred Income was just reduced by 2/3rds or more.......Don't you ever change your mind? So if you think it is just Duane W and Denny D and few others who are making the policy, it just isn't so. There are MECs composed of a wide range in Age demographics yours included that are setting the course.
The IRS did not negotiate the B plan, individual MEC's did and other Unions too SWAPA, APA Teamsters Air Divison. But they must be within the laws of ERISA and IRS code 401. They were at the time, but the laws can change. Just like the AGE 60. ALPA just doesn't want wholesale changes without attempting to have a say an influnce the effects of the proposed change. What if they do? Yes ALPA will be there if the laws change but there is no guarantee of the outcome. They fought like hell to stop the distress terminations but were bashed by the Bankruptcy courts. They did manage to help sponsor the Airline Pension relief act. In my opinion, it was just a Band Aid on a gushing wound.....DID APA, IPA, SWAPA or the Teamster Airline Divison? Who else do you have? Not picking on the other Unions. They just don't have the Polictical backing ALPA does and true lately ALPA hasn't had much. Maybe we should give more to the ALPA PAC??
...........Remember when the IRS arbitrarily changed the IRS deduction limit?
I've been paying dues for as long as You. You are certainly are entitled to ***** and complain.......I do it myself on ocasion. But before you go blaming ALPA national look to your MEC personnel first. If you really feel strongly get a motion in your LEC, get a petition going. If as many people feel as you do, just maybe things can swing your way......
ALPA changes it's tune? Who is ALPA? ALPA is 60 thousand Professional Airline Pilots.
Yes when the turmoil of the industry hit....things changed and so did opinions on the AGE 60 by those that were affected. Don't you think a person might change his mind when his Deferred Income was just reduced by 2/3rds or more.......Don't you ever change your mind? So if you think it is just Duane W and Denny D and few others who are making the policy, it just isn't so. There are MECs composed of a wide range in Age demographics yours included that are setting the course.
The IRS did not negotiate the B plan, individual MEC's did and other Unions too SWAPA, APA Teamsters Air Divison. But they must be within the laws of ERISA and IRS code 401. They were at the time, but the laws can change. Just like the AGE 60. ALPA just doesn't want wholesale changes without attempting to have a say an influnce the effects of the proposed change. What if they do? Yes ALPA will be there if the laws change but there is no guarantee of the outcome. They fought like hell to stop the distress terminations but were bashed by the Bankruptcy courts. They did manage to help sponsor the Airline Pension relief act. In my opinion, it was just a Band Aid on a gushing wound.....DID APA, IPA, SWAPA or the Teamster Airline Divison? Who else do you have? Not picking on the other Unions. They just don't have the Polictical backing ALPA does and true lately ALPA hasn't had much. Maybe we should give more to the ALPA PAC??
...........Remember when the IRS arbitrarily changed the IRS deduction limit?
I've been paying dues for as long as You. You are certainly are entitled to ***** and complain.......I do it myself on ocasion. But before you go blaming ALPA national look to your MEC personnel first. If you really feel strongly get a motion in your LEC, get a petition going. If as many people feel as you do, just maybe things can swing your way......
Seriously, your suggestion that I take up a petition sounds wonderful. You and I know the reality. We at FedEx are but a pimple on a frog's scrotum regarding the age 60 debate. We didn't lose our A-plan's. Our company is making more money than it can hide. The masses at UAL, DAL, NWA, USAir are dictating the direction on this. My money says that even after massive pay decreases if you hadd up the 20,000+ pilots over there times 1.95% it comes out to a way bigger number than good ol' FedEx.
I am a realist. I can squawk all I want, but the forces that drive "our" union run far deeper than I can reach.
Sometimes it just feels good to make my feelings known, and that's all it is.
09-28-2006, 03:01 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Michael Vick's favorite animal
Posts: 267
The best way to ensure retirement is to constantly live below your means and manage your money wisely. There are folks out there who appear to be wealthy, and then there are those who are wealthy but don't appear to be.
In other words, your wealth is determined by how much you are worth and not by how much you are paid. A lot of people in this country are paid six-figure salaries but make the mistake of having six-figure spending habits. Then, there are a lot of people who make less than six-figures but are worth millions.
Unfortunately, pilots tend to fall into the spend category. B-funds are great. 401k's are essentil to retirement planning. A-funds should be looked at as "bonus" money if one is fortunate to have one.
Live below your means and save and invest the rest. My plan is to retire (on paper) based on the wealth that I can amass on my own. In the interest of being conservative, I am using the 401k and other investments for the planning. If I can retire on this alone, then the B-fund will surely be sufficient and the A-fund that much more.
Other things: own your home as soon as you can. It may not be the proverbial "captain's house", but you won't be sending the bank a large check each month either. Taxes? You'll give the bank more money for the write-off than you would otherwise send Uncle Sam. Like boats and airplanes? Rent them, don't buy.
I'm not cheap, just very frugal. I choose to spend good money on a good financial advisor, and less money on the car I drive. The financial numbers will dictate when I retire, not some mandatory age.
In other words, your wealth is determined by how much you are worth and not by how much you are paid. A lot of people in this country are paid six-figure salaries but make the mistake of having six-figure spending habits. Then, there are a lot of people who make less than six-figures but are worth millions.
Unfortunately, pilots tend to fall into the spend category. B-funds are great. 401k's are essentil to retirement planning. A-funds should be looked at as "bonus" money if one is fortunate to have one.
Live below your means and save and invest the rest. My plan is to retire (on paper) based on the wealth that I can amass on my own. In the interest of being conservative, I am using the 401k and other investments for the planning. If I can retire on this alone, then the B-fund will surely be sufficient and the A-fund that much more.
Other things: own your home as soon as you can. It may not be the proverbial "captain's house", but you won't be sending the bank a large check each month either. Taxes? You'll give the bank more money for the write-off than you would otherwise send Uncle Sam. Like boats and airplanes? Rent them, don't buy.
I'm not cheap, just very frugal. I choose to spend good money on a good financial advisor, and less money on the car I drive. The financial numbers will dictate when I retire, not some mandatory age.
Bobby and I want to go to the movies at 7 tonight, can I use your car?
09-28-2006, 03:02 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Michael Vick's favorite animal
Posts: 267
The best way to ensure retirement is to constantly live below your means and manage your money wisely. There are folks out there who appear to be wealthy, and then there are those who are wealthy but don't appear to be.
In other words, your wealth is determined by how much you are worth and not by how much you are paid. A lot of people in this country are paid six-figure salaries but make the mistake of having six-figure spending habits. Then, there are a lot of people who make less than six-figures but are worth millions.
Unfortunately, pilots tend to fall into the spend category. B-funds are great. 401k's are essentil to retirement planning. A-funds should be looked at as "bonus" money if one is fortunate to have one.
Live below your means and save and invest the rest. My plan is to retire (on paper) based on the wealth that I can amass on my own. In the interest of being conservative, I am using the 401k and other investments for the planning. If I can retire on this alone, then the B-fund will surely be sufficient and the A-fund that much more.
Other things: own your home as soon as you can. It may not be the proverbial "captain's house", but you won't be sending the bank a large check each month either. Taxes? You'll give the bank more money for the write-off than you would otherwise send Uncle Sam. Like boats and airplanes? Rent them, don't buy.
I'm not cheap, just very frugal. I choose to spend good money on a good financial advisor, and less money on the car I drive. The financial numbers will dictate when I retire, not some mandatory age.
In other words, your wealth is determined by how much you are worth and not by how much you are paid. A lot of people in this country are paid six-figure salaries but make the mistake of having six-figure spending habits. Then, there are a lot of people who make less than six-figures but are worth millions.
Unfortunately, pilots tend to fall into the spend category. B-funds are great. 401k's are essentil to retirement planning. A-funds should be looked at as "bonus" money if one is fortunate to have one.
Live below your means and save and invest the rest. My plan is to retire (on paper) based on the wealth that I can amass on my own. In the interest of being conservative, I am using the 401k and other investments for the planning. If I can retire on this alone, then the B-fund will surely be sufficient and the A-fund that much more.
Other things: own your home as soon as you can. It may not be the proverbial "captain's house", but you won't be sending the bank a large check each month either. Taxes? You'll give the bank more money for the write-off than you would otherwise send Uncle Sam. Like boats and airplanes? Rent them, don't buy.
I'm not cheap, just very frugal. I choose to spend good money on a good financial advisor, and less money on the car I drive. The financial numbers will dictate when I retire, not some mandatory age.
09-28-2006, 03:21 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Don't take my last post personally, there was some humor intended regarding RED, BLUE, GREEN.......
Seriously, your suggestion that I take up a petition sounds wonderful. You and I know the reality. We at FedEx are but a pimple on a frog's scrotum regarding the age 60 debate. We didn't lose our A-plan's. Our company is making more money than it can hide. The masses at UAL, DAL, NWA, USAir are dictating the direction on this. My money says that even after massive pay decreases if you hadd up the 20,000+ pilots over there times 1.95% it comes out to a way bigger number than good ol' FedEx..
Seriously, your suggestion that I take up a petition sounds wonderful. You and I know the reality. We at FedEx are but a pimple on a frog's scrotum regarding the age 60 debate. We didn't lose our A-plan's. Our company is making more money than it can hide. The masses at UAL, DAL, NWA, USAir are dictating the direction on this. My money says that even after massive pay decreases if you hadd up the 20,000+ pilots over there times 1.95% it comes out to a way bigger number than good ol' FedEx..
As FAr as FedEx making a difference. I disagree. Look at the National Committees......Dave Wells Safety Cargo/Securtiy Bill McReynolds, Exec VP Joe Fagone, Chirp HIMMS Jeff Kilmer. We will end up being the leaders in ALPA since we will be the CASH Cow for them assuming we have folks that want to do the job.. I just wish we could get our UPS bretheren on Board. Think of it.....Cargo takes over ALPA National.
Now I don't disagree about the UAL, USAir and DAL folks after losing their pensions. Wouldn't you change your mind if it was you? It is democracy. There is more of them then us, they want the change, Politics dictates.
There are many FedEx guys that want it changed.actually there are probably many Jr or Furloughed UAL, DAL, NWA and USAir pilots that don't want it changed.......it all comes down to numbers. That was my point.
As to the petition and trying to make things happen. I won't kid you that it is easy but if you really want action on an issue or to a change something, and it is a hot button issue: If you get enough members feathers ruffled, you can get the ball rolling. It will take time, a little cash and some personal drive. It's not to late to get yourself on the Ballots if you really want it.
BTW sorry for the color schemem but the reason for the Red Blue Green is I still haven't figured out how to do the "Multi-quote" thing. Guess I need to get Tony C to PM me with simple instructions in English.......
Last edited by RedeyeAV8r; 09-28-2006 at 03:23 PM.
09-28-2006, 03:56 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Michael Vick's favorite animal
Posts: 267
Mawk I didn't take it personally.
As FAr as FedEx making a difference. I disagree. Look at the National Committees......Dave Wells Safety Cargo/Securtiy Bill McReynolds, Exec VP Joe Fagone, Chirp HIMMS Jeff Kilmer. We will end up being the leaders in ALPA since we will be the CASH Cow for them assuming we have folks that want to do the job.. I just wish we could get our UPS bretheren on Board. Think of it.....Cargo takes over ALPA National.
Now I don't disagree about the UAL, USAir and DAL folks after losing their pensions. Wouldn't you change your mind if it was you? It is democracy. There is more of them then us, they want the change, Politics dictates.
There are many FedEx guys that want it changed.actually there are probably many Jr or Furloughed UAL, DAL, NWA and USAir pilots that don't want it changed.......it all comes down to numbers. That was my point.
As to the petition and trying to make things happen. I won't kid you that it is easy but if you really want action on an issue or to a change something, and it is a hot button issue: If you get enough members feathers ruffled, you can get the ball rolling. It will take time, a little cash and some personal drive. It's not to late to get yourself on the Ballots if you really want it.
BTW sorry for the color schemem but the reason for the Red Blue Green is I still haven't figured out how to do the "Multi-quote" thing. Guess I need to get Tony C to PM me with simple instructions in English.......
As FAr as FedEx making a difference. I disagree. Look at the National Committees......Dave Wells Safety Cargo/Securtiy Bill McReynolds, Exec VP Joe Fagone, Chirp HIMMS Jeff Kilmer. We will end up being the leaders in ALPA since we will be the CASH Cow for them assuming we have folks that want to do the job.. I just wish we could get our UPS bretheren on Board. Think of it.....Cargo takes over ALPA National.
Now I don't disagree about the UAL, USAir and DAL folks after losing their pensions. Wouldn't you change your mind if it was you? It is democracy. There is more of them then us, they want the change, Politics dictates.
There are many FedEx guys that want it changed.actually there are probably many Jr or Furloughed UAL, DAL, NWA and USAir pilots that don't want it changed.......it all comes down to numbers. That was my point.
As to the petition and trying to make things happen. I won't kid you that it is easy but if you really want action on an issue or to a change something, and it is a hot button issue: If you get enough members feathers ruffled, you can get the ball rolling. It will take time, a little cash and some personal drive. It's not to late to get yourself on the Ballots if you really want it.
BTW sorry for the color schemem but the reason for the Red Blue Green is I still haven't figured out how to do the "Multi-quote" thing. Guess I need to get Tony C to PM me with simple instructions in English.......
09-28-2006, 04:15 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
Please read Smith's letter to Quesada
http://www.age60rule.com/docs/smith_quesada.pdf
and the Quesada ALPA letter.
http://www.age60rule.com/docs/quesada_sayen.pdf
09-28-2006, 04:29 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
09-28-2006, 04:59 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Michael Vick's favorite animal
Posts: 267
NO, ALPA has not historically been opposed to raising the retirement age. The fact is that they were historically against any retirement age. The CEO of American, CR Smith tried to impose a age 60 retirement upon it's ALPA pilots about the time the first jets were coming. ALPA won the grievance and the over age 60 pilots were ordered reinstated. CR Smith went to his war time buddy Gen. Pete Quesada, the first Administrator of the newly formed FAA to solve his problem. Pete solved his problem and ALPA fought age 60 for over 20 years.
Please read Smith's letter to Quesada
http://www.age60rule.com/docs/smith_quesada.pdf
and the Quesada ALPA letter.
http://www.age60rule.com/docs/quesada_sayen.pdf
Please read Smith's letter to Quesada
http://www.age60rule.com/docs/smith_quesada.pdf
and the Quesada ALPA letter.
http://www.age60rule.com/docs/quesada_sayen.pdf
I'll take "Far out Factoids" for $500 Alex
09-28-2006, 05:40 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: MD-11
Posts: 284
Lets just settle this once and forever. Age 60, 65, 70 or any other age can be construded as age discrimination. So lets make it objective. Run the mile in 7:30 do 50 pushups in a minute. Recite the Gettysburg address without flaw. Hit 10 out of 10 Whack-a-moles. Purely objective. Any medical problems GONE ! Mental problems GONE! No Drinking , no smoking, credit score 700 +..... Democrat GONE!!!!!!!
Last edited by fly2ski; 09-28-2006 at 05:42 PM. Reason: To many G&Ts Guess I"m NPQ
