Age 60 and the B-Fund
10-02-2006, 08:38 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: MD-11 Capt
Posts: 330
Again, I'll ask the question since so many of you have been furloughed. How would you feel if your furlough got extended 5 years just as the industry was on the cusp of recovery so the older guys could hold on to their seat (either one, its not just Captains hitting 60) another 5 years?
Try to think back at that time and imagine the rage you would have felt then.
Then try to explain again why changing the rule to favor you now over current furloughees is "right".
To me, doing the right thing is not making an under 60 year old stay in the right seat so an over 60 guy can fly in the left seat that he got because everybody ahead of him had to retire at 60.
So the over 60 guy can't fly without you (under 60 guy) and you can't upgrade as long as he sticks around for another 5 years. Yeah, that makes sense. Talk about a Catch 22.
Plus don't worry about all the guys on furlough now. Ok, I got it now.
Try to think back at that time and imagine the rage you would have felt then.
Then try to explain again why changing the rule to favor you now over current furloughees is "right".
To me, doing the right thing is not making an under 60 year old stay in the right seat so an over 60 guy can fly in the left seat that he got because everybody ahead of him had to retire at 60.
So the over 60 guy can't fly without you (under 60 guy) and you can't upgrade as long as he sticks around for another 5 years. Yeah, that makes sense. Talk about a Catch 22.
Plus don't worry about all the guys on furlough now. Ok, I got it now.
10-02-2006, 08:46 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
Just another stir of the pot. Only months after two of the greatest feats of airmanship in airline history, the UAL 747 cargo door departure over the Pacific and the UAL DC10 total hydraulic failure at Sioux City, both Captains were put out to the Age 60 pasture. No moss growing on either of those two dudes, yet, away they went.
10-02-2006, 09:32 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Could pilots "unretire"?
Anyone know if the age 65 proposal would allow pilots who have already retired to return to their former job? At what seniority?
Most would not want to do so, especially if they got a lump sum (which they would have to return), but it's something to think about. A 60-year-old Captain might get to keep flying, but lose his seat when even older Captains came back above him. Some returning pilots might "re-retire" after only a short time. Would a slow phase-in and position freezes be needed? If this change IS coming, airlines and unions need to prepare for it now, or there could be a training and staffing nightmare down the road.
Most would not want to do so, especially if they got a lump sum (which they would have to return), but it's something to think about. A 60-year-old Captain might get to keep flying, but lose his seat when even older Captains came back above him. Some returning pilots might "re-retire" after only a short time. Would a slow phase-in and position freezes be needed? If this change IS coming, airlines and unions need to prepare for it now, or there could be a training and staffing nightmare down the road.
10-02-2006, 09:57 PM
#104
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 26
Anyone know if the age 65 proposal would allow pilots who have already retired to return to their former job? At what seniority?
Most would not want to do so, especially if they got a lump sum (which they would have to return), but it's something to think about. A 60-year-old Captain might get to keep flying, but lose his seat when even older Captains came back above him. Some returning pilots might "re-retire" after only a short time. Would a slow phase-in and position freezes be needed? If this change IS coming, airlines and unions need to prepare for it now, or there could be a training and staffing nightmare down the road.
Most would not want to do so, especially if they got a lump sum (which they would have to return), but it's something to think about. A 60-year-old Captain might get to keep flying, but lose his seat when even older Captains came back above him. Some returning pilots might "re-retire" after only a short time. Would a slow phase-in and position freezes be needed? If this change IS coming, airlines and unions need to prepare for it now, or there could be a training and staffing nightmare down the road.
10-03-2006, 03:16 AM
#105
Trust but Verify!!
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
"Rumor has it that if you were a capt or f/o and retired then yur out for good. If you were a capt or f/o and went to s/o and they subsequently changed the rule while you were still on the property then you could re-check in the capt/fo seat. I personally hope to be on the golf course and out of this business at 55."
I am pretty sure at FDX Age 60 is in the TA if we vote it in. If Age 60 passes, (which it won't soon), it would have to be voted on by the membership, and then negotiated with the company, as to what would happen to those that are still hanging around in the back seat. If it did pass one day, I like the idea I read where it would not be in effect for anyone without an ATP when it does. That way the pilots who benefited most from Age 60 retirements would not get to double dip, (including myself) as it were. They have known for a long time this day was coming and should have either prepared better or found another career where they could have worked until they were older. That sound harsh I know, but the reality is you can lose your retirement in a lot of industries and most find a way to make it, albeit not in the luxury they had hoped for.
I am pretty sure at FDX Age 60 is in the TA if we vote it in. If Age 60 passes, (which it won't soon), it would have to be voted on by the membership, and then negotiated with the company, as to what would happen to those that are still hanging around in the back seat. If it did pass one day, I like the idea I read where it would not be in effect for anyone without an ATP when it does. That way the pilots who benefited most from Age 60 retirements would not get to double dip, (including myself) as it were. They have known for a long time this day was coming and should have either prepared better or found another career where they could have worked until they were older. That sound harsh I know, but the reality is you can lose your retirement in a lot of industries and most find a way to make it, albeit not in the luxury they had hoped for.
10-03-2006, 03:18 AM
#106
Trust but Verify!!
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
I can't help but see the irony in the fact that one of Age 60's biggest advocates is calling those that want the rule to stay the same, the one's that aren't trying to change the rules to get an extra 5 years in the left seat at junior pilot's expense, and the ones that are in the majority of a poll taken by their union, Scabs. I guess if you want to look at it another way, that poll was essentially a vote to not change the current rules and wasn't even really close. Kind of like a strike vote on after Age 60 flying. Now the losers of that vote still want to keep flying even though they lost. They want to cross the line of Age 60 if you will. Now I would never call someone a Scab that didn't cross a true picket line, or play semantics like a 59 going on 5 year old, but if I were the person hurling such insults I would take another look at the definition of the word Scab and think about my actions here.
I am a little disappointed that the moderator of this board would allow such a term to be used so freely knowing what the implication of being called a Scab is in this industry. This is an airline pilot board after all and their isn't anything worse that calling a fellow pilot a Scab in my book. That is why it is reserved for the scummiest of the scum. Any thoughts here Mr. Moderator? Where do you draw the line on behavior like this?
I am a little disappointed that the moderator of this board would allow such a term to be used so freely knowing what the implication of being called a Scab is in this industry. This is an airline pilot board after all and their isn't anything worse that calling a fellow pilot a Scab in my book. That is why it is reserved for the scummiest of the scum. Any thoughts here Mr. Moderator? Where do you draw the line on behavior like this?
10-03-2006, 06:24 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
Rumor has it that if you were a capt or f/o and retired then yur out for good. If you were a capt or f/o and went to s/o and they subsequently changed the rule while you were still on the property then you could re-check in the capt/fo seat. I personally hope to be on the golf course and out of this business at 55.
10-03-2006, 12:28 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,813
10-03-2006, 07:08 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
I think you will find they will be handled like any one that has left their position. I expect they would go back as soon as the rules permit. They never bid, or had to bid the S/O position. When they turned age 60 they were forced there. If the rule changes they will be back in training ASAP.
