Shaggy1970

I hear ya, maybe I was a bit to harsh but I am sick of outsiders and even some in our own rank and file saying what a great job this is and we should all be lucky to have it, don't rock the boat and ask for anything more in the next contract ....... Blah Blah Blah!

UPS and FedEx are a great deal only because of how much the rest of the entire industry has given back. My point is; its not that great really, and as long as pilots are not willing to fight for the profession, are scared into submission by management and politicians, take jobs that pay less than what a Walmart greeters are paid, we are all in trouble!

Busboy

This line of thinking is what has been, and likely always will be, wrong with many of the people that choose this career path.

It's remarkable that we ever get this far.

JustUnderPar

Say you want to work at UPS? Why? The money? You want everyone to quit? I guarantee if they did and let a group of people with your attitude take over the pay would be that of a first year regional pilot when this next contract comes up for a vote.

Ever wonder why someone working at McD's makes more money and has better benefits than a new regional pilot? Look in the mirror!

aseweepay

Yes, the pay is good at UPS, but that doesn't give the company the right to constantly violate the contract, and I think that's our biggest daily complaint (besides the furloughs, outsourcing while FedEx grows WITH their own employees instead of despite them, etc...the list goes on and on). My interpretation of what you said is that we should put up with the constant bs and contract violations because we earn a good salary.......not gonna happen

Whistlin' Dan

They also have a lot of vulnerabilities, both as a corporation, and as the only unionized group of employees on the property. It will be interesting to see what happens to the pilot group when Fred Smith retires and the bean-counters take over.Those are all things that could have been negotiated into your last contract. I would think you could arrange for those things on your own for well under $3-400/mo, which is only about $4/hr assuming an 80 credit hour month.That's about 1 manager for every 25 pilots, or 4% of your total work force. Every airline has management pilots. Assuming UPS is double-staffed and could get by with only 50 flight managers, what is the actual cost to your pilot group of having an extra 50 guys doing your flying? I'm thinking that it can't possibly be more than 2% per month.

I'm not saying you guys don't have some legitimate concerns. I'm just saying that compared to what most of us have been through in the last few years, the ones you've mentioned seem kinda...well...chicken-******.

aseweepay

If the bottom 109 getting furloughed, the bottom 300 constantly being told they may or may not have a job, and the other 23xx pilots on the seniority list losing their captain seats or bases on top of all the other daily issues and stresses we have with UPS is "chicken sh*t" complaining, why don't you lay down on a couch and type away.....tell us what you've been through the last couple of years cause it's gotta be unbelievably bad. Most of us at UPS have worked at multiple airlines and have been furloughed many times before, so I will see your "chicken sh*t" and raise it a "bull crap."

Section Eight

When you have walked in my shoes (or anyone else here at workers paradise) then you can tell someone how it is.

No one on furlough can find jobs, other than asian carriers, some of us gave up (stupidly) pretty much the same money at Legacy's for "STABILITY"

Would your union offer up 130 million to your company to save your job? Would your company take it, then rip the carpet out from under you just as a muscle flexing exercise? Life at brown is what it is, and I don't wish it on ANY of you. Trust me, if I could get an interview somewhere, I WOULD quit. Thats how wonderful this is.

Money is NOT everything in life, at least not to me. This BS can go on for 7 years while they shrink (the length we remain on the active list as "furloughed"), at that rate I'll be pulling gear for some guy that got his private last week at some carrier 6 years from now.

Dan, let me ask you this...are your managers union members? Even if they are mgt inactive do they fly the contract? Would they strike if you did? Do they fly FAR limits or whats in your contract. How are your managers hired? Off the street straight into the left seat with no regards to your list? How about during a furlough, can they hire more?

NONE of that applies here. These people are flying while I sit at home, some junior to me....and hiring. And their count is ~170

And how many airlines are ACTIVELY furloughing? I know AA, UAL, TWA have
folks ON furlough, but how many were ACTIVELY furloughing in the last 2 years. And how many of those pilot unions gave what the IPA gave.

Make no mistake that this wonderland is all about who has the biggest stick, and are benevolent employer (previous for me) got it out and beat us with it, and is STILL beating those that are on property.

Buck92

are a "cake hole" and a "pie hole" different holes? just curious.

L'il J.Seinfeld

And I didn't know TWA had guys on furlough. In fact, I didn't know TWA existed.

finedavefine

I always love it when passenger pilots, guys whom if you had asked a few years ago, would have told you that they wanted nothing to do with flying freight, because "they are an airline pilot", are now critiquing us. With them, all they see is the $$$ that we make. They never seem to try to understand our back-of-the-clock flying schedules, work rules, etc. To you guys, I say, head on back to your own section of APC and leave us complain in peace.