cm757

Does anyone know if supplemental 121 operations requires the company to qive a crewmember rest at the end of trip sequence after your last flight before sending the crewmember home.

dogismycopilot

No, they don't.

WMUPilot

rest requirements are for before a trip, not after.

brownie

What they teach u at WMU? ??????

dogismycopilot

14 CFR 121.523 allows up to 30 hours on duty. We can do a 91 ferry flight after that, and then get sent home on a DHD after that. Makes for a long couple of days.

New rest rules, please!

WMUPilot

First off, they teach proper grammar. Thanks. Second, they taught us enough to get jobs within the airline industry, that is all and nothing more. Knowledge is based on experience and interpretation of the Regs, a lot of grey area in there. However, if you read closely you will find that I am correct. How else would people be allowed to be "on-call?"

brownie

Oh my another little sky bronco with a chip. You're way off base and wrong all together. Now go read some more FARS while i brush up on my grammer.

WMUPilot

lol... all in good fun, honestly. I don't mean any harm. But for a 121 supplemental operation we are allowed 91 legs on the back end of a 121 trip. That will allow you to fly forever (agree? 91 can fly all day?). Internationally (121 supp) there is no duty day for us. However, to keep things running so we can still do domestic trips (with rest requirements), we are given rest. I wish I could be doing unionized 121 scheduled trips, but we are paying dues like I assumed you did. Sorry but the regs are clear in this. How would operators such as Sierra West, USA Jet, IFL, and Kalitta be able to operate?

HeadInClouds

Yes, 91 can happen after 121, but only for one leg beyond your daily flight time (8 hrs depending on crew, equipment, rules, etc.) to repo (empty / no revenue) and only at the "request" of the captain/crew (the last part is very important and often misunderstood by both pilots and companies!).

There is an increased risk associated with 91 flights at the end of a day because if ANYTHING goes wrong (even as little as missing a radio call!), there is precedent for automatic careless/reckless operation charges.

Although technically by FAR a 91 flight could, as you say, go on forever, that would only be if your plane could fly forever without landing.

Additionally, even though endless flights could be correct by FAR, you may still be limited by your company operations manual to comply with a certain amount of duty including 91 if you are still flying company X's airplane and being paid by company X to do so.

Are the new rules going to make this clearer or just add more complexity and confusion?

Agreed, we need better rules!

Twin Wasp

I'd like to see where you get a tail end ferry can only be one leg. And that the crew must "request" it. About the only control the crew has is "accepting" the trip. A basic crew looking at 20 hours without rest and 13 block hours calling fatigued on a recorded line should get a company to reconsider.

Agreed, if your Ops Manual or contract has limits above and beyond the FAR they control.

The NPRM for F&D times bans 91 tail end ferries.