FDX ALPA Request to delay CGN Bid
06-12-2011, 06:19 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,199
...Maybe people will wake up and actually read these agreements before voting for them. It has always been a terrible deal. I never understood why I had to move my family to an FDA to get the extra money. Just renting an apartment and living there half the month is very expensive. The extra money just covers the cost of a nice crashpad and some living expenses.
You want to change it? No one bid the FDAs. It will get changed. Until then, we will have to live within the rules of the current LOA. It is specific and the company is enforcing the rules. If I were having to paying back the money, I'd bid out of HKG immediately.
You want to change it? No one bid the FDAs. It will get changed. Until then, we will have to live within the rules of the current LOA. It is specific and the company is enforcing the rules. If I were having to paying back the money, I'd bid out of HKG immediately.
06-12-2011, 06:19 PM
#52
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
No, but I don't go to work planning to lose money either. It just seems a little crazy (to me) that someone would have that mindset while working for the best company in the world. A better idea, would be a LOA that pays tuition in full...Like every other company does that sends employees abroad.
We arent management types, and we certainly have no special skills!
06-12-2011, 06:22 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Unknown Rider
Posts: 533
Guys! Keep your eye on the ball here. This whole HKG thing is the standard pitch in the dirt. Talking to a few of the guys in HKG who are under investigation, they don't know why. Plus, there is a wide disparity in the living conditions of those who are being investigated, including people who have moved their families there.
Having the company and ALPA (unreal) negotiate a letter and amnesty program for those under investigation is a joke. Nobody knows what the deal is. I'm afraid the company has thieir suspicions, but doesn't know for sure, so how about offering a get out of jail free card to inform on yourself? Come on! Think! And then having ALPA come out with their standard we'll defend this to the end thing while simultaneously signing on with this amnesty thing should have us all running for our reps for an explanation. BTW, does anyone notice that nobody over in HKG who is under investigation isn't NOQ? Why is that do you think? I'm not trying to throw cold water on the potential seriousness of the company's position, but come on! Our guys are being investigated and are still flying the schedule, does that make sense?! If whatever these violations are, aren't serious enough to redline everyone and collapse the base's flying, for now. What do you want to bet that nothing on the investigation front will proceed until this CGN bid finalizes? We wouldn't want the guys considering bidding CGN with a full on throw down going on with our bros in HKG, they might reconsider. See where I'm going with this? Bidder beware and anyone dealing with RT in FedEx labor law, look out, he's certainly NOT your friend.
Recap:
1) Guys are being investigated for something they don't know about, but are allowed to keep flying.
2) Their notification has come from their CP, who doesn't know all the reasons either' therefore can't defend them or advise them. To date, nobody has heard from the SCP.
3) ALPA and the company offer an amnesty program to get guys to talk, yet comes out and defends the members in question. Makes me wonder why.
4) Nobody is feet on the ramp over this.
5) Ongoing bid for CGN is in progress.
6) HKG pilots have heard nothing and are flying with the threat of an investigation over their heads, with no info and no idea what it's about. Hmm? Safe?
7) We should be demanding evidence or a backdown, but aren't, offering amnesty instead?
Not too happy,
WM
Having the company and ALPA (unreal) negotiate a letter and amnesty program for those under investigation is a joke. Nobody knows what the deal is. I'm afraid the company has thieir suspicions, but doesn't know for sure, so how about offering a get out of jail free card to inform on yourself? Come on! Think! And then having ALPA come out with their standard we'll defend this to the end thing while simultaneously signing on with this amnesty thing should have us all running for our reps for an explanation. BTW, does anyone notice that nobody over in HKG who is under investigation isn't NOQ? Why is that do you think? I'm not trying to throw cold water on the potential seriousness of the company's position, but come on! Our guys are being investigated and are still flying the schedule, does that make sense?! If whatever these violations are, aren't serious enough to redline everyone and collapse the base's flying, for now. What do you want to bet that nothing on the investigation front will proceed until this CGN bid finalizes? We wouldn't want the guys considering bidding CGN with a full on throw down going on with our bros in HKG, they might reconsider. See where I'm going with this? Bidder beware and anyone dealing with RT in FedEx labor law, look out, he's certainly NOT your friend.
Recap:
1) Guys are being investigated for something they don't know about, but are allowed to keep flying.
2) Their notification has come from their CP, who doesn't know all the reasons either' therefore can't defend them or advise them. To date, nobody has heard from the SCP.
3) ALPA and the company offer an amnesty program to get guys to talk, yet comes out and defends the members in question. Makes me wonder why.
4) Nobody is feet on the ramp over this.
5) Ongoing bid for CGN is in progress.
6) HKG pilots have heard nothing and are flying with the threat of an investigation over their heads, with no info and no idea what it's about. Hmm? Safe?
7) We should be demanding evidence or a backdown, but aren't, offering amnesty instead?
Not too happy,
WM
06-12-2011, 06:27 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,199
...Fedex wants it's pilots to live in the FDAs. They are much more useable if they are in domicile rather than living in the states. Their benefit is having warm bodies that can take a trip at a moments notice. If they wanted to give guys time to fly in from the US, they'd never open a domicile.
Fedex cannot make you live in domicile. However, they can withhold the housing allowance if you choose to commute. This makes commuting to one of the world's most expensive cities difficult. How much is a decent crash pad in HKG? Food is pretty expensive too without per diem. Makes commuting a bad deal. Honestly, I wouldn't do it even for the extra cash.
...Make it simple. Bid out of HKG ASAP, or change your bid out of HKG or CGN and show that the deal is too cheap. They've shown they will come to the table to make it better if they can't fill the domicile.
Honestly, it doesn't matter too much to me. Guys that chose to bid HKG under the current terms deserve what they get....
Fedex cannot make you live in domicile. However, they can withhold the housing allowance if you choose to commute. This makes commuting to one of the world's most expensive cities difficult. How much is a decent crash pad in HKG? Food is pretty expensive too without per diem. Makes commuting a bad deal. Honestly, I wouldn't do it even for the extra cash.
...Make it simple. Bid out of HKG ASAP, or change your bid out of HKG or CGN and show that the deal is too cheap. They've shown they will come to the table to make it better if they can't fill the domicile.
Honestly, it doesn't matter too much to me. Guys that chose to bid HKG under the current terms deserve what they get....
06-12-2011, 06:31 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,199
....The vote that counts is the one you make with your feet in this case.
Taking a deal overseas that you admit will cost you money, while also knowing the company will make more money knowing pilots like you will take a lowball offer just to live in Europe, is exactly the mindset that allows them to keep future offers low...
Taking a deal overseas that you admit will cost you money, while also knowing the company will make more money knowing pilots like you will take a lowball offer just to live in Europe, is exactly the mindset that allows them to keep future offers low...
06-12-2011, 06:43 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Unknown Rider
Posts: 533
Let's operate under the assumption that the guys bid it, and are operating honestly within the framework of what they signed, and deserve NOTHING short of a fair deal and one that is cost neutral to them. IF they are speeding outside the lines, then I say you are screwed and the company can come get you. There are always going to be guys that ride that line a little too close, but since nobody has much information, the least we can do is pull for our own guys.
Sitting here throwing spears at our own guys is so counter productive, I can't believe anyone would say that they "deserve what they get".
Sitting here throwing spears at our own guys is so counter productive, I can't believe anyone would say that they "deserve what they get".
06-12-2011, 07:00 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 218
Let's operate under the assumption that the guys bid it, and are operating honestly within the framework of what they signed, and deserve NOTHING short of a fair deal and one that is cost neutral to them. IF they are speeding outside the lines, then I say you are screwed and the company can come get you. There are always going to be guys that ride that line a little too close, but since nobody has much information, the least we can do is pull for our own guys.
Sitting here throwing spears at our own guys is so counter productive, I can't believe anyone would say that they "deserve what they get".
Sitting here throwing spears at our own guys is so counter productive, I can't believe anyone would say that they "deserve what they get".
06-12-2011, 07:13 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Having the company and ALPA (unreal) negotiate a letter and amnesty program for those under investigation is a joke. Nobody knows what the deal is. I'm afraid the company has their suspicions, but doesn't know for sure, so how about offering a get out of jail free card to inform on yourself? Come on! Think! And then having ALPA come out with their standard we'll defend this to the end thing while simultaneously signing on with this amnesty thing should have us all running for our reps for an explanation.
Not too happy,
WM
Conspiracy on the Amnesty program? Interesting take. If folks are worried they should obtain advice from another source. Can you call in sick if you aren't mentally ready to fly?
What exactly do you expect the union to do? The amnesty thing might end up being good for members. Depends on what the company does next and the actual actions of the pilots involved. None of us, including the Union, can be certain.
Where is the gray area in the LOA? Maybe there is one. If I was a HKG pilot I'd get a take from an attorney with expertise in this area so I don't say or do anything wrong.
Last edited by Gunter; 06-12-2011 at 07:40 PM.
06-12-2011, 07:25 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Unknown Rider
Posts: 533
What I'm saying is that I would expect ALPA to take one side or the other. I am not saying there is a conspiracy, what I'm saying is that it seems like it's both sides of the argument. Maybe it will be a good thing for the members, I want the best for our guys, no matter how we get there.
It seems that there are significant questions that need to be answered for those pilots whom are affected by this.
WM
It seems that there are significant questions that need to be answered for those pilots whom are affected by this.
WM
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