HF on R220
04-10-2011, 09:12 PM
#31
gets every day off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Retired MD11 Capt
Posts: 705
There is a big difference between speaking clearly and talking slowly. I've flown with guys that act like they are speaking to a baby or a pet. They (Asian controllers) understand English better than they speak it, granted, but they speak it better than any of you speak their language I'll wager. Never been asked to "say again" and I speak in a normal tone at a normal pace. I don't say tree, fife, or niner (unless I'm on a bad HF connection) and have never been misread. I also don't say " coming right to heading 270" every time I'm given a heading to fly...very wordy and ties up the frequency. And I don't have to ask for frequencies....I pay attention.
P.S. I'm also humble about my extraordinary skills.
P.S. I'm also humble about my extraordinary skills.
04-10-2011, 09:55 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 608
"Use discretion; do not overload the controller with information unneeded or superfluous."
AIM 4-2-3-A 3
4.5.1.1 The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) phonetic alphabet is used by personnel when communications conditions are such that the information cannot be readily received without their use. Air traffic control facilities may also request pilots to use phonetic letter equivalents when aircraft with similar sounding identifications are receiving communications on the same frequen- cy. Pilots should use the phonetic alphabet when identifying their aircraft during initial contact with air traffic control facilities. Additionally, use the phonetic equivalents for single letters and to spell out groups of letters or difficult words during adverse communications conditions.
Last edited by TheBaron; 04-10-2011 at 11:30 PM.
04-11-2011, 08:03 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: MD11 CPT
Posts: 1,077
Correct for Tokyo, but more than half the time SFO after up front being told CPDLC wants a position report along with the registration number I presume for billing.
04-11-2011, 01:39 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Brown 747-400
Posts: 524
Secondly, I don't care if any of the controllers speak better English than I do their native language...it's their job. When Chinese (Mandarin) becomes the international language of aviation, then I guess I'll have a problem. Until then, I think that the Chinese controllers in general need improvement with their English skills.
Originally Posted by TheBaron
Never been asked to "say again" and I speak in a normal tone at a normal pace.
All you ever hear on the radio in that region is Chinese being spoken...rarely any English. I think part of the problem is that they don't get to practice their English skills as much as their counterparts in PVG, and the like. However, poor English skills aren't limited to NE and NW China. The last time we landed in SZX, we had a controller that sounded like he had a mouth full of marshmallows, and was extremely difficult to understand. I'm not talking about a radio problem here, I'm talking about his enunciation. We had to "say again" at least two times for every transmission, just so we could understand what he wanted...not acceptable for a busy terminal environment.
Like I said before, it's hit or miss in China.
04-11-2011, 02:16 PM
#36
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Tool-Box, old man
Posts: 2,204
04-11-2011, 03:08 PM
#37
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
There are few other techniques for sure.
HF, what good is that ? They know where we are. Its all automatic. And its a big ocean. We flew this in the DC8 for years and didn't talk to anyone for hours.
04-11-2011, 03:52 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 608
04-11-2011, 03:59 PM
#39
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Tool-Box, old man
Posts: 2,204
Exactly CC! RATS!!!! by answering you I'm now one step closer to losing!!!
04-11-2011, 04:16 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 608
First off, I was talking specifically about Chinese controllers (mainland PRC), not Asian controllers in general. There is a huge difference between countries. The controllers in Hong Kong are excellent, so are the Japanese controllers. I've also found that the Taipei, Ho Chi Minh, Vientiene, Bangkok, and Yangon controllers speak English very well, even if Yangon's radios sound like you're talking into an echo chamber.
Secondly, I don't care if any of the controllers speak better English than I do their native language...it's their job. When Chinese (Mandarin) becomes the international language of aviation, then I guess I'll have a problem. Until then, I think that the Chinese controllers in general need improvement with their English skills.
Really? Ever fly the L-888, or anywhere in NE or NW China? Next time you're through there, ask for something out of the ordinary at a normal speaking pace...like a ride report at FL 11,600M. Let us know if you've still never heard "say again."
All you ever hear on the radio in that region is Chinese being spoken...rarely any English. I think part of the problem is that they don't get to practice their English skills as much as their counterparts in PVG, and the like. However, poor English skills aren't limited to NE and NW China. The last time we landed in SZX, we had a controller that sounded like he had a mouth full of marshmallows, and was extremely difficult to understand. I'm not talking about a radio problem here, I'm talking about his enunciation. We had to "say again" at least two times for every transmission, just so we could understand what he wanted...not acceptable for a busy terminal environment.
Like I said before, it's hit or miss in China.
Secondly, I don't care if any of the controllers speak better English than I do their native language...it's their job. When Chinese (Mandarin) becomes the international language of aviation, then I guess I'll have a problem. Until then, I think that the Chinese controllers in general need improvement with their English skills.
Really? Ever fly the L-888, or anywhere in NE or NW China? Next time you're through there, ask for something out of the ordinary at a normal speaking pace...like a ride report at FL 11,600M. Let us know if you've still never heard "say again."
All you ever hear on the radio in that region is Chinese being spoken...rarely any English. I think part of the problem is that they don't get to practice their English skills as much as their counterparts in PVG, and the like. However, poor English skills aren't limited to NE and NW China. The last time we landed in SZX, we had a controller that sounded like he had a mouth full of marshmallows, and was extremely difficult to understand. I'm not talking about a radio problem here, I'm talking about his enunciation. We had to "say again" at least two times for every transmission, just so we could understand what he wanted...not acceptable for a busy terminal environment.
Like I said before, it's hit or miss in China.
The absolute worst (in my opinion) are Pyongyang and that place in New Guinea when you go feet wet over the north coast of Australia (can't think of the name.)
And yes, I have done L-888, the alternate northern routes, and Shanghai-Almaty dozens of times. Never had a problem. Maybe they think you have a funny accent?? You weren't in UPS 63 the other day were you? Ride report...boxes...I don't get it?
Only 6 to go.
