UPS/SDF Questions
03-14-2011, 01:30 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 653
Delta pilots have taken HUGE cuts in pay since their contract in 2001 was destroyed by bankruptcy. Really sad.
I agree Delta's top pay in this current contract is less the UPS's top pay today. Salty has also brought up the good point that pay is not everything to a contract. I don't know if Cougar was saying other points besides the pay of UPS's current contract are better then Delta's 2001 contract.
03-14-2011, 03:37 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 653
$265 per hour in 2001 = $321 in 2009 dollars. Ups pay $237. UPS would require a pay increase of 35% to have the same buying power per hour of a Delta 767 pilot in 2001 based on that guess.
I don't know what the guarantee was for delta in 2001. APC says the current guarantee is 65 line holder, 70 reserve. Ups is 81.25 currently.
monthly pay based solely on the above guarantee would be closer to the same dollar amount. However a UPS pilot would have to work more hours then the 2001 delta pilot.
Delta reserve 767 pilot $22,470 per month (70 hours of work)
UPS reserve 767 pilot $19,256 per month (81.25 hrs or 14% more work)
pilot 7576 is that what you are asking? or am I all screwed up
03-14-2011, 04:13 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 679
Hours of credit doesn't necessarily mean hours of work. You can cherry pick hourly rates from different airlines over the years. Remember when ABX was top dog with $239 but without trip rigs? 975 hours of guarantee/year translates into a nice paycheck even if the hourly rate is something less with a lesser guarantee.
JMO
Pilot7576
Not sure when the $265 was current, but remember it from our contract roadshow. Let's go back in the 60s if you wish and inflation adjust any major airline pay to now....now everyone is underpaid. But in 2011 I'll take my chances with ups.
JMO
Pilot7576
Not sure when the $265 was current, but remember it from our contract roadshow. Let's go back in the 60s if you wish and inflation adjust any major airline pay to now....now everyone is underpaid. But in 2011 I'll take my chances with ups.
03-14-2011, 04:43 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 653
Hours of credit doesn't necessarily mean hours of work. You can cherry pick hourly rates from different airlines over the years. Remember when ABX was top dog with $239 but without trip rigs? 975 hours of guarantee/year translates into a nice paycheck even if the hourly rate is something less with a lesser guarantee.
JMO
Pilot7576
Not sure when the $265 was current, but remember it from our contract roadshow. Let's go back in the 60s if you wish and inflation adjust any major airline pay to now....now everyone is underpaid. But in 2011 I'll take my chances with ups.
JMO
Pilot7576
Not sure when the $265 was current, but remember it from our contract roadshow. Let's go back in the 60s if you wish and inflation adjust any major airline pay to now....now everyone is underpaid. But in 2011 I'll take my chances with ups.
Again a guess but to stay with the delta contract 2001 comparison I would guess trip rig of 1: 3.5. Ups 1 to 3.75?
yeah I remember when ABX was top hourly pay. I am not familiar enough with their old contract to make any comparisons. sad deal over there as well.
03-14-2011, 04:47 PM
#36
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
It is a good thing we have these great work rules, or do we ? 
The pay is good, UPS ignores the contractual work rules and some of the FARs when they want to, for as long as they can. Even if their intrepretation is different from any other airline and the FAA. But I digress ...
The pay is good ...
That really about sums it up
The pay is good, UPS ignores the contractual work rules and some of the FARs when they want to, for as long as they can. Even if their intrepretation is different from any other airline and the FAA. But I digress ...
The pay is good ...
That really about sums it up
03-15-2011, 07:47 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: -400 CAPT
Posts: 483
my take
-Stability
UPS took a hit to the stability factor with the furlough. Fortunately the original planned furlough of 400+ was reduced due to the open time ban language in the contract that all but 18 of our 2700 pilots have followed to the letter. We can't control any future furloughs at UPS, but we can mitigate the numbers drastically by pulling together. No other union could pull this off.
-Schedules and Quality of Life
Being junior at UPS equals being based 6 hours away in Anchorage. But second year pay of $140,000 will help mitigate the commute. I'd rather do that than be a newhire at FedEx and be on the 727 flight engineer panel or on their narrowbody B-scale. Also, you'll be flying either the sweet 747-400 or the erratic but sleek MD-11.
Once you're a few years in a seat you'll have decent seniority and can score some good lines. Then, dropping a vacation week here and there you can turn one week of vacation into 3-4 weeks off easily. Then bid some training conflicts, and you're talking a lot of time off that's unparalleled in the industry. This balances out the years when you're stuck on reserve or flying out and backs out of SDF (the worst flying in our system).
-Equipment
Nobody complains much here about the aircraft we fly or the condition in which they're maintained (save "Building 580").
-Pay
Our first officers make what widebody captains make at most majors. Our captains have the highest hourly rate coupled with the highest guarantee. And a 4% raise on top of that in 2012. With minimal 3% contractual pay raises in our next contract, we'll be close to $300 per hour.
-Retirement
11% B-plan is near top in the industry. Our A-plan is weak. Overall, the two put together are an extremely good package.
-Management
The nice thing about being a pilot at UPS is you can go to work for months and never have to deal with management (or your chief pilot). I ride low on their radar. I even called in fatigued once and only got an email. That said, management-employee relations needs some serious improvement. Will that happen under the new system chief pilot? Time will tell.
-Future
The future is bright assuming no terrorist strike or other calamity in our economy. Let's say two years from now hiring commences. There will be a stampede to get here for one reason alone, our first officer pay. Second year pay will be $150 an hour, or a monthly pay guarantee that surpasses a topped out American 737 captain ($12,000 per month vs. $10,600 per month).
Things are stagnant right now, but looking forward it won't stay like this forever. Contrary to other posters here, I would never steer a friend that wants to work here- away from here. That would be nothing short of silly.
UPS is a solid airline pilot job with an awesome pilot group, and it's a dream job despite some shortcomings.
UPS took a hit to the stability factor with the furlough. Fortunately the original planned furlough of 400+ was reduced due to the open time ban language in the contract that all but 18 of our 2700 pilots have followed to the letter. We can't control any future furloughs at UPS, but we can mitigate the numbers drastically by pulling together. No other union could pull this off.
-Schedules and Quality of Life
Being junior at UPS equals being based 6 hours away in Anchorage. But second year pay of $140,000 will help mitigate the commute. I'd rather do that than be a newhire at FedEx and be on the 727 flight engineer panel or on their narrowbody B-scale. Also, you'll be flying either the sweet 747-400 or the erratic but sleek MD-11.
Once you're a few years in a seat you'll have decent seniority and can score some good lines. Then, dropping a vacation week here and there you can turn one week of vacation into 3-4 weeks off easily. Then bid some training conflicts, and you're talking a lot of time off that's unparalleled in the industry. This balances out the years when you're stuck on reserve or flying out and backs out of SDF (the worst flying in our system).
-Equipment
Nobody complains much here about the aircraft we fly or the condition in which they're maintained (save "Building 580").
-Pay
Our first officers make what widebody captains make at most majors. Our captains have the highest hourly rate coupled with the highest guarantee. And a 4% raise on top of that in 2012. With minimal 3% contractual pay raises in our next contract, we'll be close to $300 per hour.
-Retirement
11% B-plan is near top in the industry. Our A-plan is weak. Overall, the two put together are an extremely good package.
-Management
The nice thing about being a pilot at UPS is you can go to work for months and never have to deal with management (or your chief pilot). I ride low on their radar. I even called in fatigued once and only got an email. That said, management-employee relations needs some serious improvement. Will that happen under the new system chief pilot? Time will tell.
-Future
The future is bright assuming no terrorist strike or other calamity in our economy. Let's say two years from now hiring commences. There will be a stampede to get here for one reason alone, our first officer pay. Second year pay will be $150 an hour, or a monthly pay guarantee that surpasses a topped out American 737 captain ($12,000 per month vs. $10,600 per month).
Things are stagnant right now, but looking forward it won't stay like this forever. Contrary to other posters here, I would never steer a friend that wants to work here- away from here. That would be nothing short of silly.
UPS is a solid airline pilot job with an awesome pilot group, and it's a dream job despite some shortcomings.
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