A Question You Need to Answer Before You Vote
02-22-2011, 07:44 AM
#12
New Hire
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 9
Clarification
My point in starting this thread is that this vote, IMHO, is about leverage...
1) Staying in section 6 negotiations, 2) the current NMB, 3) the FDA's, etc.
Leverage will drive how soon a complete CBA can be reached.
If you believe that the quickest route to reaching the goals we spelled out to the MEC and NC going into contract talks is by giving up the above leverage (and that we are being compensated enough for giving them up at this time), and thus, essentially placing section 6 negotiations on hold for at least a year, then vote yes.
If you think that the fastest route is to maintain our current leverage and force the company back into section 6 negotiations, then vote no.
1) Staying in section 6 negotiations, 2) the current NMB, 3) the FDA's, etc.
Leverage will drive how soon a complete CBA can be reached.
If you believe that the quickest route to reaching the goals we spelled out to the MEC and NC going into contract talks is by giving up the above leverage (and that we are being compensated enough for giving them up at this time), and thus, essentially placing section 6 negotiations on hold for at least a year, then vote yes.
If you think that the fastest route is to maintain our current leverage and force the company back into section 6 negotiations, then vote no.
Last edited by flares; 02-22-2011 at 08:19 AM.
02-22-2011, 08:35 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
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02-22-2011, 10:43 AM
#16
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
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Months before the last FDA LOA was voted on, I only met one that was voting yes. And, IMO that didnt turn out well!
02-22-2011, 11:51 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777
Posts: 564
02-22-2011, 02:10 PM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A300/310 FO
Posts: 84
As contrasted against:
We end up with no gains at all. In the meantime, the company has opened Paris and Hong Kong anyway, under current FDA. No problem getting Captains to bid, as there are no raises anyway. The new hires jump at the chance and all seats are easily filled.
In the alternative you seem to favor, we have gained what, exactly?
We end up with no gains at all. In the meantime, the company has opened Paris and Hong Kong anyway, under current FDA. No problem getting Captains to bid, as there are no raises anyway. The new hires jump at the chance and all seats are easily filled.
In the alternative you seem to favor, we have gained what, exactly?
If this thing fails, which in all honesty I think it will pass...that doesn't mean it's shot down completely, we kick it back and make the company fix some things. I guess we will see how important the FDA's are to them...
Last edited by 1stCivDiv; 02-22-2011 at 06:32 PM. Reason: spelling fail
02-22-2011, 09:05 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B777 Captain
Posts: 566
I keep hearing this argument and it really doesn't hold any water...Yes it is true the Captains will hold it no problem, but the FO seat will go wicked junior, and the company doesn't want that at all...Remember when we had the excess bid? It was more of a seniority realignment bid, the company could not furlough because without that bid, ANC would have been gutted and a ghost town, and so would HKG...The company doesn't want Junior guys/New Hires in an FDA because furloughing becomes a real problem for them...And you really think a new hire can afford to live overseas on the current LOA at 50 bucks an hour?? Fail... As long as 4a2b is not fixed, entry and exit, I am voting NO!
If this thing fails, which in all honesty I think it will pass...that doesn't mean it's shot down completely, we kick it back and make the company fix some things. I guess we will see how important the FDA's are to them...
If this thing fails, which in all honesty I think it will pass...that doesn't mean it's shot down completely, we kick it back and make the company fix some things. I guess we will see how important the FDA's are to them...
I notice also that if someone posts a something in support of the TA and does not have a lot of posts that they are, essentially, branded as a "troll", yet when someone shows for a first post that is against it, they are worshiped around here.
Finally, I notice that those opposed to the TA are quick to attack the individuals who are arguing a counter view, and not just against their positions, while those who have indicated support for the TA have only argued against the ideas, and have not resorted to name calling.
Think about it.
02-23-2011, 03:50 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
You know, I was thinking earlier that when I post other scenarios other than the popular views here, that I am accused of "fear mongering", yet all of the posts on this board that oppose the TA are arguing based on the FEAR that we are losing some bargaining chip and associated issues. THAT, my friends, is the real "fear mongering" going on here.
I notice also that if someone posts a something in support of the TA and does not have a lot of posts that they are, essentially, branded as a "troll", yet when someone shows for a first post that is against it, they are worshiped around here.
Finally, I notice that those opposed to the TA are quick to attack the individuals who are arguing a counter view, and not just against their positions, while those who have indicated support for the TA have only argued against the ideas, and have not resorted to name calling.
Think about it.
I notice also that if someone posts a something in support of the TA and does not have a lot of posts that they are, essentially, branded as a "troll", yet when someone shows for a first post that is against it, they are worshiped around here.
Finally, I notice that those opposed to the TA are quick to attack the individuals who are arguing a counter view, and not just against their positions, while those who have indicated support for the TA have only argued against the ideas, and have not resorted to name calling.
Think about it.
Yes all of your post have been so civil I wonder why anyone dare oppose you. But feel free to dismiss the angry 12 or 20 since you are from the loyal majority.
PS the MEC admits the CGN loa is a bargaining chip why cant you?
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