FedEx/UPS Contracts
01-09-2011, 01:00 PM
#12
Part Time Employee
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Posts: 1,918
Not gonna happen.
Oh, sorry I forgot, you are allowed to make jokes here.
01-09-2011, 02:21 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: MD-11 CAPT
Posts: 30
It's not a contract
SVA042,
Not really that important but thought I would add to your and most of the other pilots knowledge. The Fedex pilots, and I suspect strongly the UPS pilots as well, do not have a contract with their company. It is a Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). May be semantics to you but I promise you it is important. When it gets to a court of law a contract will take priority over a CBA. Ask the guys at United, USAir, and NWA. They went to the back of the line when their companies declared bankruptcy and the judges that handled the bankruptcy with a stroke of a pen terminated portions of their CBA that they had worked years to get. Things like pay rates, Defined benefit plans, and work rules were taken away Meanwhile the executives walked away with everything they had been promised because it was part of a contract.
Bottom line is we will never have a contract so it is imperative that we all do what we can to keep our employers out of bankruptcy. Not that we can prevent a CEO committed to taking a company into bankruptcy from doing so. So picking where you go to work is pretty important. The pilots at Fedex are pretty secure as long as Fred Smith is still at the helm as the company is his baby and he would do everything in his power to keep the company viable. When Fred finally retires--watch out.
Not really that important but thought I would add to your and most of the other pilots knowledge. The Fedex pilots, and I suspect strongly the UPS pilots as well, do not have a contract with their company. It is a Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). May be semantics to you but I promise you it is important. When it gets to a court of law a contract will take priority over a CBA. Ask the guys at United, USAir, and NWA. They went to the back of the line when their companies declared bankruptcy and the judges that handled the bankruptcy with a stroke of a pen terminated portions of their CBA that they had worked years to get. Things like pay rates, Defined benefit plans, and work rules were taken away Meanwhile the executives walked away with everything they had been promised because it was part of a contract.
Bottom line is we will never have a contract so it is imperative that we all do what we can to keep our employers out of bankruptcy. Not that we can prevent a CEO committed to taking a company into bankruptcy from doing so. So picking where you go to work is pretty important. The pilots at Fedex are pretty secure as long as Fred Smith is still at the helm as the company is his baby and he would do everything in his power to keep the company viable. When Fred finally retires--watch out.
01-09-2011, 03:22 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,124
SVA042,
Not really that important but thought I would add to your and most of the other pilots knowledge. The Fedex pilots, and I suspect strongly the UPS pilots as well, do not have a contract with their company. It is a Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). May be semantics to you but I promise you it is important. When it gets to a court of law a contract will take priority over a CBA. Ask the guys at United, USAir, and NWA. They went to the back of the line when their companies declared bankruptcy and the judges that handled the bankruptcy with a stroke of a pen terminated portions of their CBA that they had worked years to get. Things like pay rates, Defined benefit plans, and work rules were taken away Meanwhile the executives walked away with everything they had been promised because it was part of a contract.
Bottom line is we will never have a contract so it is imperative that we all do what we can to keep our employers out of bankruptcy. Not that we can prevent a CEO committed to taking a company into bankruptcy from doing so. So picking where you go to work is pretty important. The pilots at Fedex are pretty secure as long as Fred Smith is still at the helm as the company is his baby and he would do everything in his power to keep the company viable. When Fred finally retires--watch out.
Not really that important but thought I would add to your and most of the other pilots knowledge. The Fedex pilots, and I suspect strongly the UPS pilots as well, do not have a contract with their company. It is a Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). May be semantics to you but I promise you it is important. When it gets to a court of law a contract will take priority over a CBA. Ask the guys at United, USAir, and NWA. They went to the back of the line when their companies declared bankruptcy and the judges that handled the bankruptcy with a stroke of a pen terminated portions of their CBA that they had worked years to get. Things like pay rates, Defined benefit plans, and work rules were taken away Meanwhile the executives walked away with everything they had been promised because it was part of a contract.
Bottom line is we will never have a contract so it is imperative that we all do what we can to keep our employers out of bankruptcy. Not that we can prevent a CEO committed to taking a company into bankruptcy from doing so. So picking where you go to work is pretty important. The pilots at Fedex are pretty secure as long as Fred Smith is still at the helm as the company is his baby and he would do everything in his power to keep the company viable. When Fred finally retires--watch out.
01-09-2011, 04:46 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: MD-11 CAPT
Posts: 30
Tuck, Specifically it is a CBA not a contract. We do our fellow pilots a disservice if we continue to use the term "Contract". It has never been a Contract and a lawyer will let you know quickly if you refer to our CBA as a Contract in a court of law.
01-10-2011, 05:45 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,124
I'm not a lawyer but do a google search of collective bargaining agreement and just about every hit refers to it as a contract. Business dictionary defines it as a "Written, legally enforceable contract for a specified period (usually one year), between the management of an organization and its employees" - wikipedia much the same - they provide plenty of references. What's for sure, when talking about employment, the term 'contract' generally refers to a CBA. Do your own research and let us know if there's some other "contract" you are referring to.
01-10-2011, 08:20 AM
#17
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Agreed ... touche'
Fedex had orders for both the MD-11 and A-380 before either one flew, and while may not have been the "launch customer," they certainly are or would have been the cargo launch customer. I don't think that in either case, the FedEx order was contingent upon earlier passenger orders. Fred's not against buying new airplanes when it suits his purposes.
Although you have to admit, it is hard to place either company on the cutting edge of aircraft technology while FedEx still flies many B727s and UPS only recently parked its fleet of DC8s. The new A380s on order were purely about volume and distance.
Just like when UPS was the "launch" customer of the B757 freighter, it suited our purpose.
I guess my point is that the typical rational of saving on the labor/crew costs associated with pax airlines isn't going to be as large of a consideration when most cargo companies acquire new aircraft. And it seems that the OP feels that cargo airlines will lead the way in this area.
Pax will fight it at their airlines, and our cargo airlines don't need it ...
Does that make more sense ?
01-10-2011, 08:51 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,989
A large percentage of our aircraft are currently equipped with a touch-screen Electronic Flight Bag with the entire fleet scheduled to receive them.
We operate a large fleet of MD-11s which by themselves are more technologically advanced than many of the aircraft types operated by our US major airlines. In addition, these aircraft are being equipped with a HUD that also incorporate Infared Enhanced Flight Vision System.
Several MD-10 aircraft are being used as test-beds for IR missile defense packages.
Delivery of brand new 777Fs is on-going and I can imagine anyone who wouldn't agree that aircraft represents "cutting edge technology".
We still have room to improve, so maybe I'm missing your point - who do you place at the cutting edge of aircraft technology.
01-10-2011, 09:05 AM
#19
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Pax airlines tend to make aircraft purchases to reduce operating expenses.
Cargo airlines tend to make aircraft purchases to increase volume and revenue.
Generally speaking of course ...
Somehow the OP feels that UPS/FedEx are going to be on the forefront of single pilot aircraft.
I'd like to know why ??? Other than pax perception ...
Last edited by CactusCrew; 01-10-2011 at 09:49 AM.
01-10-2011, 09:51 AM
#20
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
So after some recent comments I read in a SWA vs FedEx post, I have to ask a question to any FedEx/UPS pilots. Has anyone considered getting a clause in your next contracts regarding number of pilots required? I feel that even the possibility of a 1-person crew would be such a huge downfall for the career that it would be an imperative thing to be sure to get in writing, and to make sure there are no possible loopholes for scope and such. Any thoughts on this subject?
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