Brown Bailout...GREAT
10-29-2010, 03:48 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Why would I kid, why should a delta mechanic, gate agent, or baggage mauler not be free to join a local union under your logic? Why shouldnt dlta have to negotiate with 372 different locals?
10-29-2010, 03:48 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
Zapata,
I know it doesn't make YOU feel dirty but this mandatory mail-in campaign on company time will likely cost your company in court.
It's a shame that pesky legal stuff is getting in the way of world domination over there.
Before you ask "What airline?"
Why UPS, of course.
I know it doesn't make YOU feel dirty but this mandatory mail-in campaign on company time will likely cost your company in court.
It's a shame that pesky legal stuff is getting in the way of world domination over there.
Before you ask "What airline?"
Why UPS, of course.
Just call it my public service.
10-29-2010, 08:34 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
Once again for the thousandth time. If UPS want to operate the way FDX does they are free to, there is no double standard. Form a seperate airline, freight, and trucking company.
Why would I kid, why should a delta mechanic, gate agent, or baggage mauler not be free to join a local union under your logic? Why shouldnt dlta have to negotiate with 372 different locals?
Why would I kid, why should a delta mechanic, gate agent, or baggage mauler not be free to join a local union under your logic? Why shouldnt dlta have to negotiate with 372 different locals?
Another fact; They're both anti-organized labor. The difference is that current law regarding labor benefits FDX more than UPS. Yes. Double standard....no getting around it now how one spins it.
10-29-2010, 10:40 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 99
Once again, for the thousandth time, the real world is the real world. Fact; Due to the law, it is an easier climate for organized labor at UPS than it is a Fedex. Fact; UPS and Fedex are in direct competition to each other. Yes. Double standard.
Another fact; They're both anti-organized labor. The difference is that current law regarding labor benefits FDX more than UPS. Yes. Double standard....no getting around it now how one spins it.
Another fact; They're both anti-organized labor. The difference is that current law regarding labor benefits FDX more than UPS. Yes. Double standard....no getting around it now how one spins it.
Both FedEx and UPS have the same rules. Fedex has just found a way to work within those rules to it's advantage and UPS has not. Same house...Same Rules. Both can swear, but UPS chooses not to swear and Fred does.
So, how does a double standard apply to this scenario. The playing field is even, Fedex just coached a better game. You shouldn't be able to change the rules in the middle of the game just because you are losing.
It's an easier climate for organized labor at UPS because of the decisions of the 2 managements, not a double standard in the law.
10-29-2010, 10:53 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 276
at the end of your sentence?
Why should a delta mechanic, gate agent, or baggage mauler not be free to join a local union under your logic? Why shouldnt dlta have to negotiate with 372 different locals?
Besides, according to you, FedEx runs their airline, freight, and trucking companies "separately." That being the case, how could labor troubles at one company could possibly affect operations at the other two?
10-30-2010, 03:12 AM
#17
Trust but Verify!!
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
This is like watching 2 kids on the playground saying my Dad is stronger than your Dad. Not a word of what is typed or debated here will matter on iota in the end. The articles are good to reads though..
10-30-2010, 05:57 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Because Delta mechanics, gate agents, and baggage handlers are employees of the parent corporation. If Delta chose to split their operations into 372 different entities (to avert an effort to unionize, for example) they'd have to deal with 372 different locals.
Besides, according to you, FedEx runs their airline, freight, and trucking companies "separately." That being the case, how could labor troubles at one company could possibly affect operations at the other two?
Besides, according to you, FedEx runs their airline, freight, and trucking companies "separately." That being the case, how could labor troubles at one company could possibly affect operations at the other two?
The issue is whether all fedex express employees essential to running the airline are going to be able to organize nationally or locally. Labor troubles at "Express" would not impact "Ground" other than Ground would gain a lot of business (just like UPS). If Express loses its RLA protection, most likely the seperate companies would go away and all our express drivers would become independent contractors like the ground model. Fred is not going to let a local strike in Newark shut down its International Operations. Just like UPS wouldn't.
10-30-2010, 07:48 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
Maybe you don't understand what "Double Standard" means.....???? It means one set of rules for one and another set of rules for someone else. Kinda like a parent can swear, but his kids can't. Same house....Different rules.
Both FedEx and UPS have the same rules. Fedex has just found a way to work within those rules to it's advantage and UPS has not. Same house...Same Rules. Both can swear, but UPS chooses not to swear and Fred does.
So, how does a double standard apply to this scenario. The playing field is even, Fedex just coached a better game. You shouldn't be able to change the rules in the middle of the game just because you are losing.
It's an easier climate for organized labor at UPS because of the decisions of the 2 managements, not a double standard in the law.
Both FedEx and UPS have the same rules. Fedex has just found a way to work within those rules to it's advantage and UPS has not. Same house...Same Rules. Both can swear, but UPS chooses not to swear and Fred does.
So, how does a double standard apply to this scenario. The playing field is even, Fedex just coached a better game. You shouldn't be able to change the rules in the middle of the game just because you are losing.
It's an easier climate for organized labor at UPS because of the decisions of the 2 managements, not a double standard in the law.
You know what else? Fedex says a double standard exists. According to Fedex.com's investor relations section;
FedEx Corporation - Investor Relations - Railway Labor Act
Differences in the RLA and the NLRA
The RLA and NLRA are both laws that govern union organizing and collective bargaining. The main difference is the RLA was specifically designed to govern the unique circumstances of national transportation systems to protect the flow of commerce.
Under the RLA, groups that wish to unionize must do so across nationwide classes of employees. The RLA also requires mandatory government-led mediation of contract disputes supervised by the National Mediation Board before a union can strike or an employer can replace employees or impose contract terms. This part of the RLA helps minimize the chances of crippling strikes that would shut down large portions of the economy.
The NLRA is a more general piece of legislation geared to general and local labor situations. The NLRA covers the vast majority of American workers because only a small percentage of them work in national transportation systems. Under the NLRA, employees can unionize in small localized groups, and government led mediation is not a required step in the negotiation process.
The RLA and NLRA are both laws that govern union organizing and collective bargaining. The main difference is the RLA was specifically designed to govern the unique circumstances of national transportation systems to protect the flow of commerce.
Under the RLA, groups that wish to unionize must do so across nationwide classes of employees. The RLA also requires mandatory government-led mediation of contract disputes supervised by the National Mediation Board before a union can strike or an employer can replace employees or impose contract terms. This part of the RLA helps minimize the chances of crippling strikes that would shut down large portions of the economy.
The NLRA is a more general piece of legislation geared to general and local labor situations. The NLRA covers the vast majority of American workers because only a small percentage of them work in national transportation systems. Under the NLRA, employees can unionize in small localized groups, and government led mediation is not a required step in the negotiation process.
Both company's drivers under the NLRA, both airlines RLA,
-or-
All (airline and ground) of UPS and Fedex under the jurisdiction of the RLA
-or-
All (airline and ground) of UPS and Fedex under the jurisdiction of the NLRA
Anything else is a double standard.
10-30-2010, 08:03 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Well, no. I know the definition of "double standard". Perhaps you don't understand. Fedex = subject to the RLA. UPS = subject to the NLRA. Yes, that is a double standard in the law.
You know what else? Fedex says a double standard exists. According to Fedex.com's investor relations section;
FedEx Corporation - Investor Relations - Railway Labor Act
One or the other.
Both company's drivers under the NLRA, both airlines RLA,
-or-
All (airline and ground) of UPS and Fedex under the jurisdiction of the RLA
-or-
All (airline and ground) of UPS and Fedex under the jurisdiction of the NLRA
Anything else is a double standard.
You know what else? Fedex says a double standard exists. According to Fedex.com's investor relations section;
FedEx Corporation - Investor Relations - Railway Labor Act
One or the other.
Both company's drivers under the NLRA, both airlines RLA,
-or-
All (airline and ground) of UPS and Fedex under the jurisdiction of the RLA
-or-
All (airline and ground) of UPS and Fedex under the jurisdiction of the NLRA
Anything else is a double standard.
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