Jetjok

What's really uplifting is how you say it's a "fact", and then, in the same sentence, say it's "likely" that the F/O and RFO will get a jeopardy trip to the sim. My question to you is, which is it? Is it a fact, or is it just likely? Besides, I didn't read anywhere where anyone was pointing fingers at either the F/O or the RFO. Did you?

Sort of reminds me of the following scene from "Fast Times at Ridgemont High":

Jefferson's Brother: My brother's gonna kill us! He's gonna kill us! He's gonna kill you and he's gonna kill me, he's gonna kill us!
Jeff Spicoli: Hey man, just be glad I had fast reflexes!
Jefferson's Brother: My brother's gonna sh!t!
Jeff Spicoli: Make up your mind, dude, is he gonna sh!t or is he gonna kill us?
Jefferson's Brother: First he's gonna sh!t, then he's gonna kill us!

MD11Fr8Dog

I'm not so sure, only the CAP went NOQ!

pipe

My assertion was based on history. Multiple examples abound. Ignore that FACT if you choose.

PIPE

MX727

You could have pulled up the schedules of the involved crew members and seen, as alluded to in the post above yours, that those two crew members didn't go NOQ and have other trips on their lines going forward.

pipe

Yeah - I could have, but I didn't. Whether or not it happened this particular time wasn't really my point. My point was to highlight that, historically, FDX standards have held FO's and RFO's responsible for similar incidents at times. That this didn't happen with the latest incident is, I hope, indicative of a cultural shift. If the FO can't land in less than perfect conditions, how can he/she be responsible for taxi clearance on the left side of the aircraft? You can't have it both ways.

PIPE

990Convair

Pipe,

Last I checked, there is a set of brakes on your side of the jet.

pipe

Forget it.

Jetjok

Pipe,

Just because they're out to get you, doesn't mean that you have to get paranoid about it. No one was blaming anyone but the captain for this mishap, and if your point was that historically, right seaters were included in the "blame" for mishaps, then you should have said that, right up front, because the rest of us can't read your mind. To everyone else, it just looked like you were discussing this mishap. As you young guys say, my bad.

JJ

pipe

Well, since you continued the discussion:

First off, this wasn't about me. Don't attribute things to me or pretend to know my intent.

Secondly, this has nothing to do with old guys vs. young guys - again you're attributing intent with no basis.

Third, here's what I was getting at: 727 at SDF, mechanic leaves the scissors unpinned, tells the crew that it's in, they reject and stop in the grass. Everyone gets a checkride. MD-11 runs over the taxi lights at CDG to make sure and get every inch of over 11,000 feet of runway - everyone gets a checkride (RFO didn't have a set of brakes - but he did get a checkride). These are just a couple that come immediately to mind.

Whether you know it or not, that's a standards solution that is peculiar to FDX. As a crewmember it's not really in any of our interest for it to work that way. The incident in this thread lent itself to the usual solution. It appears not to have been treated that way - a positive development in my opinion.

As for you trying to make it old vs. young, save it. In case you haven't noticed - everyone is old in this industry; only the degree varies at this point. You're either old or you fly regional jets.

PIPE

Flightmech

Maybe i'm missing something here, but surely if there's three guys on duty up front they are all aware (or should be aware) of aircraft position on the ground. Regardless if they have a set of brakes or not surely a quick "Hey captain, we're a little left of centerline here" would do the trick?? I'll go back to my line shack now.