Finally!!! Good Advice from System Chief Pilot
08-13-2006, 07:07 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 675
give me a break! come on lets make the rules and then stick to them. that makes no sense at all blaming the process on commuters the company really is laughing at us now
08-13-2006, 07:38 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A300 F/O
Posts: 193
As a commuter I disagree, I've not flown draft or vlt Capt MARK, along with ALL of my commuter friends across the country.............who doesn't know JACK now?
Easy for someone to tell others to fly into Memfo during their time off to DH as scheduled...
Easy for someone to tell others to fly into Memfo during their time off to DH as scheduled...
Last edited by sandman2122; 08-14-2006 at 02:01 PM.
08-13-2006, 08:56 PM
#53
Organizational Learning
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
This was not heat of the battle. This was a meeting that he called, printed on the schedules of the First Officer Flexes. He had plenty of time to prepare his remarks for the meeting - - HE called it.
man you really like to pick nebulus things out of the entire package. I don't know if I think FO's as flex is a good job either. fact of the matter is there are still fo's as flexes so all he did was express his feelings, right? I guess that's a bad thing, letting people know where you stand on an issue
Oh, he was quick to admit the training he had JUST completed in the MD-11, almost exclusively by First Officer Flex Instructors, was by far the best he had ever received. He just thought the whole concept sucked. He thought it made for confusion about Captain's authority. Gimme a break. If you're in the Sim, everyone knows the guy in the left seat is the Captain, the guy in the right seat is the First Officer, and the guy pushing the buttons in the back is the Instructor. Who has trouble figuring THAT one out?
From that point forward, First Officer Flex instructors were prohibited from administering certain events. A few weeks later, 6 MD-11 First Officer Flexes were returned to the line, some with nothing more than an email as notification. Ironically, the Chief of MD-11/MD-10 Training was himself a First Officer. Naturally, none of the FOs returned to the line were senior to him.
Yes, there are FO Flexes now -- after they figured out they can't get enough Captains to volunteer to do the job. That doesn't change the fact that JL did a bit more than just express his feelings about the matter.
.
Last edited by TonyC; 08-13-2006 at 09:00 PM.
08-13-2006, 08:57 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,238
I may deviate, but I spend all my bank. And then some.
Some pigs are better than other pigs, I guess. You done broke the code Mark. Hurry and get all us inferiors a contract......
(edited - sorry Tony)
Some pigs are better than other pigs, I guess. You done broke the code Mark. Hurry and get all us inferiors a contract......
(edited - sorry Tony)
Last edited by Huck; 08-14-2006 at 03:53 AM.
08-13-2006, 09:12 PM
#55
Organizational Learning
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
In the first place, commuters and non-commuters alike are declining extra flying. It's not the fault of commuters, or non-commuters, senior or junior, MEM or LAX - - it's the fault of greedy pilots that don't get it yet. Greed comes in several varieties, but its affect is the same - - it hurts us.
Rather than cast aspersions on all commuters, let's all band together and work on the guys who really need education.
.
08-13-2006, 10:13 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: MD10 FO
Posts: 307
I'm willing to make allowances for heat of the battle mistakes. I could have accepted that as an excuse for sending the Captain who bumped a scheduler from the jumpseat an email telling him that he hoped the scheduler would get the opportunity to pay him back. It was NOT an excuse for the followup e-mail saying he meant every word.
This was not heat of the battle. This was a meeting that he called, printed on the schedules of the First Officer Flexes. He had plenty of time to prepare his remarks for the meeting - - HE called it.
Nebulus? It wasn't a bit nebulous to the First Officer Flex Instructors who had been summoned to Cheever's conference room to receive their tail-chewing from the System Chief Pilot. Did I mention it was a room full of First Officer Flex Instructors?
Oh, he was quick to admit the training he had JUST completed in the MD-11, almost exclusively by First Officer Flex Instructors, was by far the best he had ever received. He just thought the whole concept sucked. He thought it made for confusion about Captain's authority. Gimme a break. If you're in the Sim, everyone knows the guy in the left seat is the Captain, the guy in the right seat is the First Officer, and the guy pushing the buttons in the back is the Instructor. Who has trouble figuring THAT one out?
From that point forward, First Officer Flex instructors were prohibited from administering certain events. A few weeks later, 6 MD-11 First Officer Flexes were returned to the line, some with nothing more than an email as notification. Ironically, the Chief of MD-11/MD-10 Training was himself a First Officer. Naturally, none of the FOs returned to the line were senior to him.
Yes, there are FO Flexes now -- after they figured out they can't get enough Captains to volunteer to do the job. That doesn't change the fact that JL did a bit more than just express his feelings about the matter.
.
This was not heat of the battle. This was a meeting that he called, printed on the schedules of the First Officer Flexes. He had plenty of time to prepare his remarks for the meeting - - HE called it.
Nebulus? It wasn't a bit nebulous to the First Officer Flex Instructors who had been summoned to Cheever's conference room to receive their tail-chewing from the System Chief Pilot. Did I mention it was a room full of First Officer Flex Instructors?
Oh, he was quick to admit the training he had JUST completed in the MD-11, almost exclusively by First Officer Flex Instructors, was by far the best he had ever received. He just thought the whole concept sucked. He thought it made for confusion about Captain's authority. Gimme a break. If you're in the Sim, everyone knows the guy in the left seat is the Captain, the guy in the right seat is the First Officer, and the guy pushing the buttons in the back is the Instructor. Who has trouble figuring THAT one out?
From that point forward, First Officer Flex instructors were prohibited from administering certain events. A few weeks later, 6 MD-11 First Officer Flexes were returned to the line, some with nothing more than an email as notification. Ironically, the Chief of MD-11/MD-10 Training was himself a First Officer. Naturally, none of the FOs returned to the line were senior to him.
Yes, there are FO Flexes now -- after they figured out they can't get enough Captains to volunteer to do the job. That doesn't change the fact that JL did a bit more than just express his feelings about the matter.
.
I think Jack's deal with the F/O flexs' was that some Captains (let's just call it the 2% again) were taking issue with receiving instruction from some "junior F/O who was still in diapers while I was flyn' the mighty falcon yadie yadie...." It was a constant source of turmoil and ****ing contests.
From a crew upgrade perspective it would be better for all us. Basically more Captain Jobs.
As for your other example, about the Captain that bumped scheduler; What was the his rationale for doing it? If he had a valid reason, then Jack was wrong. If he was just exercising his Captain's authority because he could, then Jack was spot on! I had Captain that bumped a couple mechanics, just because he could. When he asked me and the F/O if we had problem with it. I told him it was his airplane, but just remember who works on it.... the guys you just really ****ed off....
Oh yeah, when TT (MD11 Capt) asks me to jump his car in the O&B lot, says it has been sitting there for 12 days, because he just got back from
around the world trip, It ****es me off too!
Last edited by USNFDX; 08-13-2006 at 10:15 PM.
08-13-2006, 10:26 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD-11/10 Captain
Posts: 533
Sorry, he doesn't have to be physically "sitting" at the table to be "sitting" at the table. You can sleep with the enemy without being overt about it. We have many pilots who prove that on a daily basis.
08-14-2006, 05:29 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 675
I would suggest thaht unless you were there and are aware of the input he actually had, you might want to get your facts straight. I haven't heard anything from the Union about his involvement one way or another
08-14-2006, 05:31 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 675
That's painting things with an awfully broad brush, and I don't think it keeps the paint within the lines of truth.
In the first place, commuters and non-commuters alike are declining extra flying. It's not the fault of commuters, or non-commuters, senior or junior, MEM or LAX - - it's the fault of greedy pilots that don't get it yet. Greed comes in several varieties, but its affect is the same - - it hurts us.
Rather than cast aspersions on all commuters, let's all band together and work on the guys who really need education.
.
In the first place, commuters and non-commuters alike are declining extra flying. It's not the fault of commuters, or non-commuters, senior or junior, MEM or LAX - - it's the fault of greedy pilots that don't get it yet. Greed comes in several varieties, but its affect is the same - - it hurts us.
Rather than cast aspersions on all commuters, let's all band together and work on the guys who really need education.
.
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