FLMD11CAPT

Some good thoughts here, and possibly some good strategies. Good to see some serious discussion here...........

FDX28

The company has been operating for a long time without a MD11 FDA or a Europe FDA. With all the money they saved with 4a2b, they can hold out a long time by buying DH tickets.
I think we should be careful overestimating our leverage with the FDA's.

SaltyDog

Well stated FDX28!
Agree, FLMD11 CAPT,
All, be careful what you wish for!

We had nearly identical scenario at UPS before our last negotiations.
We were presented with an interim agreement that was in reality very good.
Specifically addressed some hot and pressing topics.
Problem was, UPS actually agreed to a pretty good deal.
Naturally, we estimated if UPS were willing to agree to these terms, they must be desperate.
Since we were getting ready to start negotiations, and UPS said it was urgent (so did IPA Leadership), then we clamored to turn it down and use this valued leverage in the all encompassing contract.

Result: UPS found the work arounds, and we negotiated much less in the final 2006 contract several years later on these exact issues. IPA fell far short of what we had gained in the interim agreement.

UPS win, big lesson to IPA membership to properly evaluate the value of what one has already gained and it's shelf life. In the IPA case, we overvalued the shelf life of the negotiating capital we believed it was worth in the bigger scope of negotiations.
I voted no on the interim. Objectively, It was a big mistake in the final analysis. Now if the IPA can make a good interim agreement, will evaluate on the merits and include the dynamics of how long it retains value to management. Much can change over the life of a negotiation. 'Good luck, IPA needs you to all get best language on these oversees domiciles so we can copy the best of it in our future negotiations

MD11Fr8Dog

Uh, it'll actually be the first part of the new contract, with out having to trade something for it!

USMCFDX

Great, then put it in the new contract and I will vote on the entire package.

FDXLAG

I dont think anyone is overestimating our "leverage". We just dont see a reason to negotiate Section 6 seperate from the rest of the contract. Section 6 agreed to by both parties great, that only leaves 30 other sections.

dckozak

Assuming this rumor to be true, this LOA would affect a small part of the pilot group. We should not be fixing a problem for the minority at the expense of the majority. Let the company add this to openers. If they feel they need this to get people to bid HKG or Europe, than it will still be there waiting when we sign a new contract. I say vote NO

DaRaiders

And what is, exactly, the expense to the majority?

FDXLAG

I guess it depends on whether you think that Fred has one pot of money to pay for 777 pay rates and one pot of money for FDA subsidies and one pot of money for Section 3 or if you think there is one total pool of money the company uses to compensate employees with. The answer probably lies somewhere in between; but the contract is the only way that the pilots have to assure an equitable distrubution.

The LOA as stated in the 1st post sounds great, but what if the company came out and said we can't afford any section 3 increases due to the "unexpected" LOA cost increases. Bottomline why negotiate a change to the contract while you are just starting to renegotiate the whole contract?

990Convair

My thoughts on this:

Negotiate a passable LOA prior to section 6 openers. Why? I would rather this be at the expense of the company versus taking a sliver out of our eventual allocated funds during contract talks. Anybody who has been around and endured contract negotiations knows that it's ALWAYS a give and take. Unless you are prepared to walk, and we are not, there will always be room to compromise. I think the company does need this, badly. I would hate to see them stick it to us should we delay and defer and start farming out the flying like UPS does. Scope clause Shmope clause. Ask Robert Crandall about them. Push too many wrong buttons and we could be seeing intra-EurAsia flying done by some alter ego airline. I for one don't think the risk is worth the gain.

Negotiating a quick, passable FDA LOA revision affords those few that wish to conduct that flying a vast improvement at the expense of NOBODY. The masses then can focus on the biggies - Pay, Scheduling, Retirement.

I unequivocally trust our negotiating team on this. Remember guys and gals, they are on the inside working for us. We should give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. We elected them and from what I have seen and heard, they are quite capable of the job. If they think it's a good deal, trust but verify.

Again, remember, this is a rumor. From a guy who knows a guy who had a beer with a guy. The spirited discussion and sharing of views is why this board prospers.

Cheers!