Sea Pig

Jeez, I think we should cut new hire training pay to $0. That way those of us already on the list could all pocket an extra 20-30 bucks/month. Heck, while we're at it, no pay raises for anybody junior to me.

FDXLAG

My biggest concern with new hire pay is we force guys in their 30s to live off credit cards for a year and spend 4 years recovering. How do you recover at fedex? Fly 120 hours a month when ever possible of course.

Great lesson to teach the guys when they are new. It will come in handy when they are WB captains with wife number 3.

Double new hire pay and make 1st year pay 75% of 2nd year pay. Minimum wage 1st year pay is one ALPA right of Passage that can go the way of the Age 60 rule.

pinseeker

Gee Lag, you are generous. 75% of second year pay is just over $2 less than current 1st year pay. Maybe you were eliminating the S/O scale? I also think you would have a hard time convincing people that 60k is minimum wage

Gunter

I think the statement you're looking for is,

"No pay raises for anyone junior to me unless I get more."

FDXLAG

Actually I was thinking of WB FO in HKG. I dont think I am eliminating the S/O scale but I would be willing to bet the vast majority of new hires will not be going to the backseat. Particularly if your start counting date is DOS for contract 201X. But if you want to give them more have at it I think 2nd year pay sucks too.

$60K is pretty optimistic but you are right the minimum wage guy probably has more take home after you count food stamps, EITC, and housing assistance.

Laughing_Jakal

As much as I would like to take the "high road", and "do the right thing" for guys not yet on our seniority list......I am not ready to do that.

First I take it in the shorts on behalf of guys that were supposed to leave our seniority list, and now someone wants me to use what little negotiating capital for those not on the seniority list.

How bout helping out the mainstream, regular pilot, whatever that might be.

I can't pull up the ladder until "I've got mine"....and you know what....I haven't "got mine" yet.

If we accept the fact that this is a zero sum game, that there is only so much we will be able to improve our contract, then I am whole-heartedly against improving the contract to benefit only a few people.

Yes, new-hire pay may suck, but if we improve the contract in ways that everyone benefits, then they will get the benefit of our negotiations long past their first year.

Personally I would (and did) put up with lousy wages in order to reap the benefits of better conditions for multiple years afterwards.

You also forget that until recently, FedEx wasn't the end-all and be-all of aviation. These folks are on probation.....and they haven't made a "commitment" to the company either. It wasn't that long ago that people left FDX to go to the likes of Delta, United, etc. It could be that way again.

If I only have a few bargaining chips, why should I use them to increase the pay of someone who may or not be here in a year. A rising tide floats all boats......first year pay floats your boat high for only one year.

MaydayMark

It wasn't very many years ago that the negotiating philosophy was, "Let's get all we can for the Captains because everyone will be a Captain someday."

While I honestly don't feel that's the proper attitude in today's world, fixing 1st year pay (for guys that were lucky enough to get hired at the VERY BEST aviation job in the industry) might seem counter-productive to the well intended thought above?

Like has been previously said, let's fix stuff that benefits EVERYONE! PLEASE?

Mark

PS ... It's good to finally hear some good news for the poolies.

FDXLAG

I guess I will repost this without the part that was offensive to pinseeker.

My biggest concern with new hire pay is we force guys in their 30s to live off credit cards for a year and spend 4 years recovering. How do you recover at fedex? Fly 120 hours a month when ever possible of course.

Great lesson to teach the guys when they are new.

See it is my contention that we will help ourselves, the fedex pilot group, and all pilots everywhere by "raising the bar". While I realize the traditional ALPA meaning of raising the bar is to jack up the ceiling, I prefer to think of it as lifting the floor.

As far as how much it would cost us, simply ask the company if they still think we are overmanned. If they say yes then the projected cost is zero.

pinseeker

Never said it was offensive. It's funny how you get spooled up when someone points out flaws in your posts though

FedElta

Guys,
Am I the only one that thinks that new hire pay at a post-bankruptcy carrier like Delta being better than FedEx is pretty sad...still ?

I still remember having to live on savings for training/ 1st year pay. Having been on both sides of the fence, I honestly believe that FedEx guys have the "rope".....whether you choose to pull it up, or not, is an entirely different matter,

Regards,
BG