MEMFO4Ever

Agree. We don't need additional bodies for peak; that is what draft/volunteer is for. The inevitable volume crash in January makes bringing on additional mouths to feed unsustainable. The last thing we need is to give the manglers another 4a2b excuse in Jan/Feb 2011.

Popeye

Does the fact that we are afraid of another 4A2B because the company might unilaterally decide to hire pilots to cover themselves? This must be one of those loose strings that needs to be eliminated in this next contract. With this very idea in mind, someone tell me the downside if the company brings 400 new pilots on the property before Thanksgiving. If I were a mangler looking for an MBO bonus check to pay for new set of sails, I'd make the suggestion before any contract language changes.

While the "no penny left behind theory" is always of merit around here, the super senior citizens might think twice about the 727 S/O position if they couldn't hold the SIBA lines. They might find the cold reality of working for the last gasps of living more than they are bargaining for.

990Convair

I am wondering with the recent vacancy bid if anybody has to answer as to the true cost of the excess postings of last year.

Ever ponder what the true costs of that debacle were? Did it REALLY save the company money?

Looking ONLY at the MD11, I count 22 B757 and 7 B777 type ratings handed out. It appears that, true to form, all 29 of those excessed from the MD11 left seat bid and were re-awarded it on the latest vacancy (I know more were excessed, but I am only looking at these 29 B757/B777 folks).

According to online training data, the average B757 type rating costs $12,200 and the B777 $17,800, I am sure ours are higher due to all crews in question being paid W/B capt rate and training department resource allocation. Factor in the 50 days you lost in productivity per pilot, both during the excess and now during the requal footprints, move packages as a result of bumping and flushing PANC crews and you could easily be looking at easily more than $500,000.....JUST FOR THESE 29 Captains!

Productivity after check-out is another huge loss. There is no flying on reserve in the B757 and B777 senior F/O's that were bumped out are making a killing on "bump-drafting".

How about the "personal" effect of the excess decision on many of our crewmembers' families after, in some cases, accepting the lower hourly rate?

Now, peak is coming and we are short in the MD11. I wonder why?

So, while the BZ's are handed out for great leadership during this dark time, who knows the REAL cost of the excess bids of 2009?

DLax85

I don't think so.

The union already told us that overall dues barely dropped, meaning the flying was really just redistributed un-evenly during 4A2B by aircraft & seat seniority.

What little was saved in wages was spent in training, houses, etc....with much of it now being reversed.

They probably would have been much better off just freezing positions.

They needed the mirage of an excess bid to fill HKG right seat and justify 4A2B to the arbitrator, where they knew it would end up.

HazCan

I guess they are going to wait until Friday (day 10) to post it huh?

FDX28

I think that was only ANC in the left seat. The union also claimed that the company was saving millions per month off our backs with 4a2b.

MaxKts

Where do you come up with that?

How many MEM Capt's have any time left in there make up banks?

FDX28

From the Dec 21, 2009 Scheduling update email. It talked about total hours flown. I can remember every e-mail from 8months ago...

But I while I was going back thru e-mails I also read the Feb 10, 2010 which said -

"Dues Collected: CY 2008: $16,375,274.72 CY 2009: $16,045,153.30

Pilot Earnings (calculated)

CY 2008: $839,757,677.95 CY 2009: $822,828,374.36

This data suggests that an estimated $40M dollar savings was realized during 4.A.2.b, but flight hours were significantly reduced. Therefore, costs per flight hour actually increased. This was due to overtime flying, revisions, and a significant increase in vacation buy back.

Vacation Buy Back in December increased 28% between CY 2008 and 2009

December 2008 $505k
December 2009 $646.25k

The above data clearly shows that while in 4.A.2.b, vacation buy back increased significantly, even considering the 3% pay increase in November 2009."

So I was wrong on the total dues and that it was only from ANC, but it wasn't make-up bank rather draft, volunteer and vacation buy-buy.

DLax85

OK, it's late and I'm probably missing something:

How does $839.7M - $822.8M = $40M in saved pilot wages?

...my tired brain is showing $16.9M



Thanks.

MD11Fr8Dog

Well, since you're asking, I have almost 250hrs (for R1200 - none is from military drops since I've been out of the reserves since 3.5 months after I got hired) all from protecting min days off, mostly as an FO (I still protect min days off, but I rarely can hold any carryover since I upgraded 4 yrs ago)