UPSAv8tr

Gunter,

Do you really think the senior people have "disdain" for the junior folk. Thats as inflamatory as the senior folk saying "furlough is part of the industry, suck it up". Com'on.

As noted before, I think this furlough thing blows and I'm disappointed that management took this route. I can't imagine what the furloughees are going through. Sucks. However, saying, on the whole, the senior people have "disdain" for the junior people is over the top.

For the record, I'm not "that" senior. I am senior enough to avoid some of the pitfalls , true. But I wouldn't say I'm living the easy life. Not sure who Freightpuppy is but I think shes junior to me (Early 2001 hire). So she's probably not either.

As far as Delta goes, I think Delta is a good job, no doubt. Long term, even with a short furlough, UPS is better. JMO, YMMV.

Gunter

My observation that is in reference to "some" of a group does not mean "all" of that group. 27% of your folks don't want to provide healthcare for furloughes. All of those probably gave nothing to your MOUs.

I think Freightpuppy and Lil'J Seinfeld have stockholm syndrome and should seek treatment for it.

Freightpuppy

I think you need to put the crack pipe down. I guess we're not "cool" because we don't absolutely "hate" the company with every bone in our body. This is not high school. Grow up.

UPSAv8tr

Fair enough. Just be careful, the last reply it came off as you saying everyone senior to the furloughees do not support them. That, of course, is simply not true.

Gunter

Maybe you should hate the 27% who won't give anything and want to put folks out on the street. They seem to be running the show right now.

Waborita

As far as Delta goes, I think Delta is a good job, no doubt. Long term, even with a short furlough, UPS is better.



UPSAv8tr without mentioning hourly pay or UPS being profitable (supposedly job security) why is UPS better in the "long term" for those hired in 2006-07 than Delta.

I am not bashing you I am just curious because I hear this a lot from senior pilots here?

Waborita

My guess is that same 27% also expected the 300 to vote for the FQS integration because "it is the right thing to do".

UPSAv8tr

You can't take it out of the equation. Remember, its a total package. I'm sure you could cherry pick some things at Delta. In reply I could say "without mentioning abc and xyz why is Delta better in the long term?".

Look, its a personal decision. Thats why I said "IMO, YMMV" My experience here has not been horrible. Evidently, others has been (exaserbated by the furlough).

I think F.P. is agressive sometimes in defending her position. I can see where it would rub a few here wrong. However, IMO, I don't think her underlying position is incorrect. UPS will never love you and sing CUMBYA with you but, in the long run, its still one of the best places to end up in aviation.

Roberto

I agree. Even with a furlough, a UPS pilot's average salary over a career is more than a Delta Captain's salary. Or to put it another way, a UPS pilot could take 3 years off without pay and still make, over a career, more than a Delta pilot who was paid as a Captain for that entire time.

Here is an example:

Let's take a look at a 4th year FO at 39 years of age. For demonstration purposes, let's assume a 3-year furlough, 10 years thereafter as an FO and the final 12 years as CPT until age 65. (This would put the FO to CPT upgrade during the 14th year of service, or the 17th year if a 3-year furlough is added.) At current pay rates, total pay over next 25 years would be almost $ 4½ million plus over $ ½ million in B-plan payments. If you take the total compensation of over 5 million divided by 25 years (which includes a 3-year furlough), that comes to just over a $200,000 per year average. This amount is in current dollars, and does not take into account future increases. It also is a fairly conservative estimate of time to upgrade and the length of furlough. A less conservative estimate would yield better results.

320Driver

And if you pick up extra time during the open time ban, you make even more money!