AerisArmis

Ugly? Look who's calling the pigs a$$ pork!! Man....you so ugly, when you was born, the doctor slapped yo mother!!

MD10PLT

Tuck you need to wake up. In your world nobody ever loses their retirement, Social Security will never go bankrupt and we will all live to be 100 due to the wonderful healthcare we have all been promised for free. Take a second are read the news. Greece is in full collapse due to the over promised pensions.

Get real, take responsibility for yourself. I would much rather the company give me my retirement money now rather than a promise for the future. It would be better to put that money into some tangible assets, like paying off my house. Which would be a far better retirement investment than some vague promise.

Daniel Larusso

I'm curious as to how much you know about the details of pensions. Not your feelings about them or personal responsibility, but the actual details of how they work and the rules governing them.

Busboy

Links to aforementioned pension articles, for the basics:

Pilot retirement plans part 1

Pilot Retirement plans part 2

Lots of words, though. I don't expect many on here to read the entire thing.

Daniel Larusso

Yes it's easier to complain than read, sort of like the ALPA constitution and by-laws.

FDXLAG

Great articles, were they written before or after USAIR lost their pension? I know it could never happen to us and 4A2b will never be utilized.

Daniel Larusso

Why let actually reading the articles get in the way of a good drive-by?

Tuck

When did I say FICA wouldn't go bankrupt? I'm not counting on that at all. But I am counting on my military pension and my FDX pension in some form. Heck I'd say your Fedex pension is about as safe as your military. There's nothing saying Congress couldn't change that military pension tomorrow and it's only budgeted for the current year. At least the Fedex pension has specific funding requirements and probably greater protections in the eyes of the court than your military pension. My point in this wasn't to paint a dreamy picture but to stop having guys just throw out the terms "until Fedex drops my pension" - it's not that simple. Rather than mindlessly ranting about it here, at least take the time to read up on the facts. Heck, I wish some of our R&I guys would put out a column like the earlier mentioned one in one of our union publications to better inform the membership.

FDXLAG

I read the articles must have missed the USAIR paragraph, perhaps you could enlighten me. Did you read the articles or is this your attempt at a "drive by"? Or are you saying any concerns anyone has for possible loss of pension from an airline's DB plan is silly as it can't happen here and these articles prove it.

Oh wait is this what you meant:

"Unlike defined benefit plans, no pilot has had a dollar lost in a defined contribution plan during an airline bankruptcy."

Thanks that does help.

I consider my military pension as safe as a Greek school teacher's. FICA and Military retirements are kept in the same lock box.

kronan

I admit I haven't read the linked articles yet, but I will.

IMO-our FedEx pension is not as safe as a military pension. IMO-FICA is going to increasingly be "means" tested and the level of taxation on our social security checks is going to increase. After all, we're "rich" and we've earned "enough money".

I don't think our FedEx pensions are in great danger right now, but I don't know what the future holds. I do know that a contract isn't a suicide pact, and no Judge is going to hold FedEx's feet to the fire and require pension funding in dire financial straits. Doesn't take much for me to imagine our pension being frozen or replaced with a DC plan in the future. Doesn't take much for me to imagine circumstances where FedEx hands our pension plan over to the PBGCC (assuming that foolish govt entity still exists in some form).

The biggest catch 22 pension flaw I discerned was the fact that individual companies are allowed to forecast their funding levels based on the expected earnings of the funds they already have. eg, I assume a 20% return on my investments and my pension plan is funded to 100-150% of my expected obligations so I'm not "required" to add any funds to the pension plan.....I can even consider the "extra" money in the pension plan as "earnings" and make my company look better than it actually is (making it easier to raise capital and making my stock options a much better deal for the chosen few that get them). Doesn't take too many years of booming stock market return to set the pension plan up for a double whammy, market drops like a rock and my business revenue also drops like a rock. Then guess what, all of a sudden my pension is grossly underfunded (even with my unrealistic expected returns) and by ERISA rules I am required to pony up a huge amount of buckage in a short period of time. Money that I don't have because my revenue is in the dumps.
Thus the pension saving laws of a few years back.

FedEx has been smart and prudent in the past, what i don't know is what the future holds. If I assume the worst, I'm definitely not going to be disappointed if I'm wrong. If I assume the best, might wind up eating dog food if I live to 90.
The amazing thing to me is I've flown with a few mid 50s crew members who have less saved than I do (IRA, 401k+B fund)