FDX Carryover?
05-11-2010, 03:49 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Well genious, the guy cherry picking the flying could be junior to me.
4A2b maybe over and it may not. It is likely that 4A2b will be extended because the company went back to old practices of C/O.
Again if you take flying out of the July Bid pack and put it in the June bid pack (but don't count it in BLG stats) you are depressing the July Average BLG. In the 727 F/O case about 6 hours of July average BLG is lost, that screws every reserve pilot of about .4 hours per R day. I get that you don't think that is a big deal, I do. What is more the overall number of good July lines are reduced, this means a hit in QOL and less time at home for me.
I get that we will never change C/O, but just because we are greedy does not mean we are smart.
FDXLAG,
I believe there was a significant gripe with carryover when the lines were greatly different between fleets/seats. This isn't really the case now. BLGs are getting close to minimum contractual levels. I agree, it sucked for some to get 100+ hours a month while others got in the 50s. I thought at that time that the hour disparity was wrong. I think that carryover should have been limited when this was going on.
...
4.a.2.b. is a blip on the screen. I believe it will be over soon, simply to keep up with increased flying. I strongly believe this section of our contract will be altered greatly or simply taken out. I don't know where you stand, but personally, I'd rather take a hours cut than furlough our junior pilots. Lets think long term here.
...
I believe there was a significant gripe with carryover when the lines were greatly different between fleets/seats. This isn't really the case now. BLGs are getting close to minimum contractual levels. I agree, it sucked for some to get 100+ hours a month while others got in the 50s. I thought at that time that the hour disparity was wrong. I think that carryover should have been limited when this was going on.
...
4.a.2.b. is a blip on the screen. I believe it will be over soon, simply to keep up with increased flying. I strongly believe this section of our contract will be altered greatly or simply taken out. I don't know where you stand, but personally, I'd rather take a hours cut than furlough our junior pilots. Lets think long term here.
...
Again if you take flying out of the July Bid pack and put it in the June bid pack (but don't count it in BLG stats) you are depressing the July Average BLG. In the 727 F/O case about 6 hours of July average BLG is lost, that screws every reserve pilot of about .4 hours per R day. I get that you don't think that is a big deal, I do. What is more the overall number of good July lines are reduced, this means a hit in QOL and less time at home for me.
I get that we will never change C/O, but just because we are greedy does not mean we are smart.
Last edited by FDXLAG; 05-11-2010 at 04:58 AM.
05-11-2010, 04:52 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 503
How about this tactic. Any flying done in a month except M/U, that exceeds BLG +12 will be paid at 150%. Now the incentive to build straight pay for overtime work lines will be gone. It is a bigger reward for the Sr guys if they want it. It would also make the company rethink using CO as a manipulative tool as it would be more expensive.
05-11-2010, 06:20 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
FDXLAG,
I checked the bid pack in your seat. RLG is 66+39 (4+26/day). Historically, I don't remember ever seeing a reserve day getting paid more than around 4+40or so. We are getting very close to historical norms. I don't recall any 4+51 reserve days (.4 + 4+27), but we might have had them.
First of all, it was very bad on us that we don't have a contractual min pay for R day (say 4+30, or more?). I used to sit reserve (by choice) when we weren't getting used everyday. It was "unfair" that reserve was getting paid under 4 hours a day. But this is not the case anymore.
If junior people are flying these carryover lines and cherry picking trips, I just don't see your problem. Do it yourself! That is exactly how I used to bid, but now the reserve utilization is insane and I would rather fly trips if I am going to fly almost every day. I would bid carryover reserve, pick up CIC trips and get leveled for it. That doesn't work as well in my seat now because leveling means very little due to high utilization. But we have that oppportunity if we want.
Some things need to be changed, but I don't see this as one of them (now that are credit hours are coming back). It is a nice option to have, if you are senior enough and want to fly these type of lines.
I am not sure why we are worried about how much money everyone is making or how good some people's schedules are. Again, this assumes that some aren't making anywhere near contractual mins and others are making 100+/month. I think the union did some great work trying to level the field for all fleets/seats.
I totally agree that at one time your thoughts of carryover and huge disparities of line values were absolutely on target. Our pay is almost where it was before 4.a.2.b. Let's move on... Just my thoughts
I checked the bid pack in your seat. RLG is 66+39 (4+26/day). Historically, I don't remember ever seeing a reserve day getting paid more than around 4+40or so. We are getting very close to historical norms. I don't recall any 4+51 reserve days (.4 + 4+27), but we might have had them.
First of all, it was very bad on us that we don't have a contractual min pay for R day (say 4+30, or more?). I used to sit reserve (by choice) when we weren't getting used everyday. It was "unfair" that reserve was getting paid under 4 hours a day. But this is not the case anymore.
If junior people are flying these carryover lines and cherry picking trips, I just don't see your problem. Do it yourself! That is exactly how I used to bid, but now the reserve utilization is insane and I would rather fly trips if I am going to fly almost every day. I would bid carryover reserve, pick up CIC trips and get leveled for it. That doesn't work as well in my seat now because leveling means very little due to high utilization. But we have that oppportunity if we want.
Some things need to be changed, but I don't see this as one of them (now that are credit hours are coming back). It is a nice option to have, if you are senior enough and want to fly these type of lines.
I am not sure why we are worried about how much money everyone is making or how good some people's schedules are. Again, this assumes that some aren't making anywhere near contractual mins and others are making 100+/month. I think the union did some great work trying to level the field for all fleets/seats.
I totally agree that at one time your thoughts of carryover and huge disparities of line values were absolutely on target. Our pay is almost where it was before 4.a.2.b. Let's move on... Just my thoughts
05-11-2010, 06:38 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
I will be glad to move on but what you fail to understand is the june RLG is high Because there was no C/O in May. Get it. July's RLG will be lower because of all the June C/O.
Hello McFly, maybe the historical RLGs were always low because of the C/O. Is that good or bad?
Still waiting for someone to tell me why we give leveling credit for a C/O trip. Come on Foxhunter you know the answer. Thats right a little sumum sumum extra to reward the Senior Guy for flying overtime at straight pay.
Again I am not worried about how much someone else makes unless it is coming out of my pocket then I should be worried shouldn't I. I am not worried about how good someone else's schedule is unless it come out of my QOL.
Now if you would like to move on please do not reply with something that backs up my point again.
Hello McFly, maybe the historical RLGs were always low because of the C/O. Is that good or bad?
Still waiting for someone to tell me why we give leveling credit for a C/O trip. Come on Foxhunter you know the answer. Thats right a little sumum sumum extra to reward the Senior Guy for flying overtime at straight pay.
Again I am not worried about how much someone else makes unless it is coming out of my pocket then I should be worried shouldn't I. I am not worried about how good someone else's schedule is unless it come out of my QOL.
Now if you would like to move on please do not reply with something that backs up my point again.
05-11-2010, 07:01 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
OK, we agree to disagree. Your argument makes no sense. If it is such a good idea, BID IT!! If not, quit complaning...Geessh...
So you already know Julys RLGs? Please tell me, what will it be? I really just don't understand your issue. Do you have any makeup? If so, pick up a trip! If not, bid a line and trip trade to get 12 additional hours!
You like the idea of getting leveling credit for C/O? BID IT!! Pick up a carryover trip!
Overtime at straight pay? Nice slogan. If you choose not to fly "overtime", don't do it!
So what if the system rewards senior people? That is why it is good to be senior. Pilots senior to me have the first choices of lines, vacation, seats, domiciles, etc. That is the way seniority is supposed to work. When we get near retirement age, we can work less demanding schedules. That's a good thing, isn't it?
Again, your complaint was valid when BLGs were so low. They are close to normal now. Things aren't equal.
I think you are complaining for the sake of complaining. You should write your union rep and let them know that you are against carryover. Maybe if you get enough support, they will try and minimize the use of carryover with our next contract.
So you already know Julys RLGs? Please tell me, what will it be? I really just don't understand your issue. Do you have any makeup? If so, pick up a trip! If not, bid a line and trip trade to get 12 additional hours!
You like the idea of getting leveling credit for C/O? BID IT!! Pick up a carryover trip!
Overtime at straight pay? Nice slogan. If you choose not to fly "overtime", don't do it!
So what if the system rewards senior people? That is why it is good to be senior. Pilots senior to me have the first choices of lines, vacation, seats, domiciles, etc. That is the way seniority is supposed to work. When we get near retirement age, we can work less demanding schedules. That's a good thing, isn't it?
Again, your complaint was valid when BLGs were so low. They are close to normal now. Things aren't equal.
I think you are complaining for the sake of complaining. You should write your union rep and let them know that you are against carryover. Maybe if you get enough support, they will try and minimize the use of carryover with our next contract.
05-11-2010, 07:27 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
So what if the system rewards senior people? That is why it is good to be senior. Pilots senior to me have the first choices of lines, vacation, seats, domiciles, etc. That is the way seniority is supposed to work. When we get near retirement age, we can work less demanding schedules. That's a good thing, isn't it?
Again the 1st post asked for opinions on C/O. Not opinions on people who have opinions on C/O. This is called an Ad Hominem attack. If you don't like my opinions hit the ignore buton, I assure I will not care one way or the other. I am complaining because I have shown where C/O affects my pocket book by lowering average BLG and affects my QOL by allowing others to cherry pick opentime while they help lower my blg.
05-11-2010, 07:41 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 480
We won't have "True Social Justice" at FedEx until everybody's BLG is the same for all aircraft and seats. And our hourly pay rate is exactly the same for all aircraft and all seats.
Oh sorry, it was not my first choice, but I have a carry-over trip at the end of the month.
Oh sorry, it was not my first choice, but I have a carry-over trip at the end of the month.
05-11-2010, 07:50 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Biting Sarcasm, let me try.
We won't have "True Social Justice" at FedEx until everybody's BLG is the same for all aircraft and seats. And our hourly pay rate is exactly the same for all aircraft and all seats.
Oh sorry, it was not my first choice, but I have a carry-over trip at the end of the month.
Oh sorry, it was not my first choice, but I have a carry-over trip at the end of the month.
05-11-2010, 08:07 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
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