RedeyeAV8r

I disagree. Currently age 60 is the normal retirement age as defined in our contract. The contract does not expire until we "amend" it by ratifying a new TA.

I am not predicting what will be passed back and forth but this Pilot group must ratify any new deal it by 50% + 1.

In other words we have to agree to change that stipulation or Give that away.

I don't think you will find too many folks (Junior or Senior) who want to see that language or Age requirement change.

Just saying................

Flyinhigh

This is current as of 5/12/10. Age 62 years 8 months, wife aged 56 years 5 months. 1.8 million dollars at Vanguard will buy you an immediate annuity with a 100% survivor benefit of $9,057.15 per month or $108,685.80 per year. USAA is a little less and Met Life falls between USAA and Vanguard.
Downside is no inflation protection and no control over the funds once you commit. You can purchase an inflation protected product, but the monthly payout will be less.

Tuck

Of course not. That's my point - re-read the original email I'm commenting on. Our A plan can make a lot more than even the best fedex pilots can on their own with a pure DC plan. If you have a 401K you're living off of in retirement you have it invested at that point very conservatively and making almost nothing beyond inflation.

MaydayMark

I'm not usually a single issue voter but ... if a TA changes the "Normal retirement age" of 60, I WILL VOTE NO (I'll retire near the end of the next contract assuming it takes 2 more years to ratify and it's a 5 year contract).


Regards ... Mark

DLax85

Agree ---- as with many things in life "it depends".

...the age you were hired

...the # of years you've worked/planned to work

...the # of years you expect to live in retirement

...AND the rate of return/discount rate you are assuming in your present value or future value calculations.

Only with true perfect information, could anyone calculate the true "optimal answer".

Without it, it's anyones guess:

In times of high market (or govt securities) rates of return the Defined Contribution plans look better.

In time of low market (or govt securities) rates of return the Defined Benefits plan look better.

Over the past two years, with huge fluctuations in the market and interest rates on bonds dropping to historic lows, those who have defined benefit military retirement have found great comfort in it.

(As another poster has pointed out, the risk there may be some future "means testing")

I was a bit surprised in the last contract when we agreed to eliminate the "survivors benefit" for a pilot who's actively working younger than 55 and replace it with an $800K life insurance policy.

How was $800K determined to be the "right" #??

I can't imagine it was "right" for both the 54 year old wide-body Capt AND the 26 year old 727 SO ---- or the 40 yr old FO.

It's hard to believe that conversion was really "one size fits all!!"

Somebody lost and somebody gained there ---- but, I never heard much about it.

If we moved from a DB to a DC plan, I think there would be similar "winners" and "losers", all depending on how you answer the questions at the top of the post.

In the end, I think a diversified approach ---- as we have now ---- is best, and I agree that we should be weary, and hesitant, if the company wants to eliminate our DB plan for an increased DC plan.

OBTW, Redeye ---- how long can a 727 SO collect LTD?

...just until 65 or can they go beyond that?

...if beyond, are they still accruing years of service at 2% a year past Age 65?

Thanks.

Jetjok

I'll try to answer these questions for Redeye, because I'm in that exact situation. A FedEx crewmember, not just a 727 S/O, can collect LTD until his or her 65th birthday. During the time they are on LTD, they are still accruing seniority and longevity (years of service). On their 65th birthday, they either must retire, or (I guess) they, having already spoken to the company, can train or re-train for the 727 back seat. For the record, I'm going to retire on my 65th birthday.

JJ

DLax85

Thanks JJ --- but, in the scenario you describe they'd have to remedy their medical condition, pass a physical and come off LTD to train/re-train to the SO seat.

What happens to a currently qualified, 66 yr old, Second Officer who finds himself on LTD.

How long can he remain on LTD status?

Thanks.

KnightFlyer

I'm right there with you.

When I hear talk of rolling over with a defeatist attitude on Age 60 retirement and/or pension changes it blows my mind. I wonder what they are thinking or who they really support or work for.

Unknown Rider

When you say "they", exactly who are you talking about? Not MEC members I hope.

Gunter

The crewmembers who have a defeatist attitude are a product of several lost battles and now feel back tracking is the norm.

1) They got hosed by the "Best we could do because we don't give a flip" FDA LOA

2) They got hosed by 65 retro pushed by their own MEC Chair. The result was PC's "SO excess bid" to fill CA slots that didn't really exist and was soon followed by another excess bid that pushed them out of their seats into those previously filled by over 60 guys.

3) 4a2b was another swift kick in the jimmies.

Don't wonder why. Instead try to patiently explain why this time it's different and they aren't about to be taken to the woodshed again. Prepare well, you're going to need a compelling argument to succeed.