FDX Carryover?
05-16-2010, 02:34 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
Ah so you wanted to make it about me.
You will have a hard time finding where I said I don't want to read something. In fact I am calling you a liar.
Again it was a tic comment about our previous discussions about what we each feel should and shouldn't be said over the internet and what the membership should expect from their leadership based on what the by-laws say. Btw, I don't know if you took it that be about you, but that ALPA C & BL statement was in a reply to Busboy's comment and was general in nature. I'll eat the liar label because I'm not going to bother to wade through our previous talks to find something that you didn't/wouldn't read. Besides, it's the internet and that's pretty tame. Then again, maybe I'll sue you over it......
05-16-2010, 08:13 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
I am betting that $55K/ would require you to work to 65 not just 25 years. Big change if you ask me.
05-16-2010, 10:09 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Come up with a number that you think you'll need per year at retirement, and calculate it yourself. I think most people will be surprised. If you're looking for the same $130,000/yr as our DB plan, you'll need roughly $1.8 million in a DC plan. Based on a 25yr career, you'd need to put $30,000(tax free) a year, every year, into it, to reach that number. So, what would that be? Somewhere around a 26%/yr contribution for a 2nd yr F/O and end with 12% for W/B Capt, if you could do it pre tax?
And that's just to make up for the DB plan("A Plan"). If we kept our current B plan, add another 7% onto those numbers.
Of course, if you fly enough "FDX Carryover?"...You can just make your own retirement fund with it. And, then leave it to your heirs, anyway. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.
Last edited by Busboy; 05-16-2010 at 10:20 PM.
05-16-2010, 10:31 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
FDXLAG,
When I look at the posts, I see smilely's in both my original post to you, the middle & last one. Beyond that I would think that the Burr & due comment would let you know that the initial comment was a bit more serious for you than me. Oustide of that I don't know what to tell ya. Yes to get that 55K you would have to go to 65. The actual PBGC max would likely be higher by then. You can go earlier but the amount received is lower, like Huck's uncle. The question would still be whether PBGC + any benefits gained from termination negotiations like stock or convertible note proceeds would be greater than an increased DC over time.
When I look at the posts, I see smilely's in both my original post to you, the middle & last one. Beyond that I would think that the Burr & due comment would let you know that the initial comment was a bit more serious for you than me. Oustide of that I don't know what to tell ya. Yes to get that 55K you would have to go to 65. The actual PBGC max would likely be higher by then. You can go earlier but the amount received is lower, like Huck's uncle. The question would still be whether PBGC + any benefits gained from termination negotiations like stock or convertible note proceeds would be greater than an increased DC over time.
05-17-2010, 07:59 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
You're missing the whole point. I was pointing out how much you would need in a DC plan to buy an annuity that would pay you $55K/yr for 25 years, in very rough numbers of course.
Come up with a number that you think you'll need per year at retirement, and calculate it yourself. I think most people will be surprised. If you're looking for the same $130,000/yr as our DB plan, you'll need roughly $1.8 million in a DC plan. Based on a 25yr career, you'd need to put $30,000(tax free) a year, every year, into it, to reach that number. So, what would that be? Somewhere around a 26%/yr contribution for a 2nd yr F/O and end with 12% for W/B Capt, if you could do it pre tax?
And that's just to make up for the DB plan("A Plan"). If we kept our current B plan, add another 7% onto those numbers.
Of course, if you fly enough "FDX Carryover?"...You can just make your own retirement fund with it. And, then leave it to your heirs, anyway. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.
Come up with a number that you think you'll need per year at retirement, and calculate it yourself. I think most people will be surprised. If you're looking for the same $130,000/yr as our DB plan, you'll need roughly $1.8 million in a DC plan. Based on a 25yr career, you'd need to put $30,000(tax free) a year, every year, into it, to reach that number. So, what would that be? Somewhere around a 26%/yr contribution for a 2nd yr F/O and end with 12% for W/B Capt, if you could do it pre tax?
And that's just to make up for the DB plan("A Plan"). If we kept our current B plan, add another 7% onto those numbers.
Of course, if you fly enough "FDX Carryover?"...You can just make your own retirement fund with it. And, then leave it to your heirs, anyway. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.
And I didnt argue with your number I simply pointed out that the PBGC number of 55K vice 36K was based on 2 different retirement models. Contractually we still have the 36K model No?
I would also point out that your mythical 1.8 million is worth a lot more than a promised 130K a year.
1. You do not have to have any sort of spousal benefit plan because Fred dont keep the money if you die early.
2. If you out live Fred you don't have to worry about some gumba like PC being incharge of your retirement future. To all you anal retentive posters; this was a hypothetical example please do not reply to this with the line of succession for the FDX empire.
3. You have some potential to hedge it against inflation.
I am not hard set against a DB plan, I like mine. But no matter how you spin the numbers a dollar in my name now can be worth more (to me) than X dollars promised to me in the future.
05-17-2010, 08:12 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
FDXLAG,
When I look at the posts, I see smilely's in both my original post to you, the middle & last one. Beyond that I would think that the Burr & due comment would let you know that the initial comment was a bit more serious for you than me. Oustide of that I don't know what to tell ya. Yes to get that 55K you would have to go to 65. The actual PBGC max would likely be higher by then. You can go earlier but the amount received is lower, like Huck's uncle. The question would still be whether PBGC + any benefits gained from termination negotiations like stock or convertible note proceeds would be greater than an increased DC over time.
When I look at the posts, I see smilely's in both my original post to you, the middle & last one. Beyond that I would think that the Burr & due comment would let you know that the initial comment was a bit more serious for you than me. Oustide of that I don't know what to tell ya. Yes to get that 55K you would have to go to 65. The actual PBGC max would likely be higher by then. You can go earlier but the amount received is lower, like Huck's uncle. The question would still be whether PBGC + any benefits gained from termination negotiations like stock or convertible note proceeds would be greater than an increased DC over time.
05-17-2010, 09:35 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
I would also point out that your mythical 1.8 million is worth a lot more than a promised 130K a year.
1. You do not have to have any sort of spousal benefit plan because Fred dont keep the money if you die early.
1. You do not have to have any sort of spousal benefit plan because Fred dont keep the money if you die early.
2. If you out live Fred you don't have to worry about some gumba like PC being incharge of your retirement future. To all you anal retentive posters; this was a hypothetical example please do not reply to this with the line of succession for the FDX empire.
3. You have some potential to hedge it against inflation.
I am not hard set against a DB plan, I like mine. But no matter how you spin the numbers a dollar in my name now can be worth more (to me) than X dollars promised to me in the future.
I am not hard set against a DB plan, I like mine. But no matter how you spin the numbers a dollar in my name now can be worth more (to me) than X dollars promised to me in the future.
05-17-2010, 10:24 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
I'm not arguing to make anyone right or wrong. There is no right or wrong in regards to this. But, for years I've heard the same thing..."We need to get rid of our A-plan, and focus on a larger B-Plan". All based on the theory that an A-Plan is just a promise and we'd be safer and better off with a larger B-Plan.
A big B-Plan sounds great. But, I think folks need to think about just how large that B-Plan would need to be, to equal our A-Plan...And, would it really be safer?
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