Tuck

I think you're crazy on this...not sure which squadron buddies you're talking to or where exactly they work but it's a pretty different impression than what I hear.

UPS has put out furlough notices and you have half the number of pilots as FDX. Displacements seem to have affected you guys as much as us - just about every junior UPS pilot I know has taken a significant displacement - and that' s the big money here, not 4a2b. At least in my seat 4a2b resulted in an average of 7 hours per month lost - this over the past 15 months or so, significant but not incredible - and if it allowed us to retain all our pilots then that's huge. Don't forget that at UPS just to get to where you are today you had to give up thousands of hours by these "voluntary LOAs".

Today, things are looking up at FDX, not so at UPS. I sincerely hope that both airlines have a great future but I just get a totally different picture than what you've written.

J Dawg

Stability really? You say that 2 weeks before the start of 300 furloughs while everyone else is about to start hiring..

Ridiculous as the folks with return rights who already decided to go back? Or those of us who would leave here to go there if given the chance? UPS is a **** company.

FliFast

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think most of us in UPS' pilot group do not share these opinions.

1. MD11 were moved to domestic mostly because they have reliability issues and the company felt they could keep them closer to the barn to fix them and also in the domestic system they would have down time to fix them...unlike what you would have while flying round-the-clock on the International circuit.

Secondly, on International in Asia and Europe we are close to 2007 volumes and so are our friends at Purple. In addition we are flying more military charters than in 2007.

2. After using Excel, we have approx 190 over-60 pilots and we want to furlough 300. I will agree that this group has become more efficient. Some, have returned from long term disability to return to PIC/SIC positions.

3. I agree that fleet simplification is a good move, but from an operations standpoint to reduce the number of airframe types without replacements shows overtones that UPS has chosen a strategy of cost-control management. Not a bad idea during a downturn, but I think most indicators suggest the beginning of a robust recovery in air cargo. The Pros of this are lower costs due to fleet simplification (less spare parts, chief pilots, and simulators). The Cons, loss of market share, inability to expand, difficulty for marketing reliability and product differentiation, and inflexibilty during non-routine operations.

The folks at FDX may have starkly differnt opinions but their reduction in caps to mitigate furloughs shows that everyone was willing to carry the burden of loss of pay. One of the reasons the MOU did not succeed was because the the RDG/job share was mostly volunteered by junior Anchorage pilots. Well, it's quite simple, you can't run a domicile schedule when everyone is on job sharing or reduced flying...so quite a few that volunterred on paper were asked to fly full lines...savings on paper, but no savings in real operations.

Our JA/Open time ban is voluntary..it has been effective but it is voluntary. I've been impressed by our solidarity.

Rumors heard from squandron mates..no offense to our fine fighting force...but these kinda rap sessions rate up there in reality with rumors from the van drivers in Philly.

FedEx should be happy with their 777s, they've been exceptional performers and in turn FDX has ordered and are receiving them aggresively. We have planes sitting in the desert...our upper management is in cost-control mode, not expansion mode. We will be lean, but not mean.

I agree that you may be on top today and furloughing tomorrow, we at UPS epitomize this concept. However, to pass judgement on where one individual will go to work is ridiculous. At the risk of being wrong, UPS may see letters of resignation from some of the furloughees to go to Delta.

FF

FliFast

Tuck, I agree with you in that things are different at FDX than they are at UPS. The joke, almost a mantra at UPS is that we copy FDX's movements--only six months later. In essence we were operationally minded but just inexperienced so we figured what was good for the goose, etc etc etc.

Now we have a CEO that is an accountant.

In his bio:
Prior to his current position, Davis served as vice chairman and chief financial officer. A native of Oregon, Davis earned a bachelor’s degree in finance from Portland State University. After completing college, he spent several years with Arthur Andersen. Davis also completed an Advanced Management Program at the Wharton School of Business. Davis joined UPS in 1986 when the company acquired Oregon technology company, II Morrow. He had served as the chief financial officer and then CEO.

Interestingly enough he worked at Arthur Andersen. His vision for UPS is to rightsize the organization through cost-reductions. IMHO, he is trying to boast Earnings per share by lowering unit costs. D.Scott Davis is paid primarily in stock, so the stock price is very important to him and his annual compansation. The only other thing that comes to mind is a merger, a reduction in cost to raise debt rating, or a golden or buyout parachute.

Stay tuned,
FF

Albief15

FedElta,

You have your own sources, and I have mine. However, I am interested in what some of the Peachtree City crowd that matter would say about

A-Rehiring someone from UPS/FDX that resigned once

B-Hiring a furloughee from another carrier (hmmm...perhaps an ATL based cargo company) that never worked for them but was obviously a good pilot with a good record when they got furloughed and left in ANC...

Any SA? You can blast it to the world here or PM if it makes more sense. I'm already getting calls from folks interested in preparing for Delta. I'd wondering who mght ultimately have a shot....

FedElta

Albie,

I'm still a fng, but here's my take :
1) don't lie

2) don't lie

3) don't lie

4) recently flew with a guy who was furloughed from D, went to UPS, didn't like it and took a recall back to D......pretty open minded on D's part .

5) Furlougee's should get a look if they are otherwise competitive

6) Red Tie

7) Blue Suit.

8) Don't be the guy that took Mil Leave from D, and came to work full time at FDX.......lot of red dots on his chest.

9) Did I mention red tie, blue suit, don't lie ? call if you need to.......

Best regards,
BG

Gunter

Lot's of guys are living in the past. The recent past but the past none the less. You can't do that when forecasting. Only lessons for the future count.

Furloughing at UPS is a big, big, big deal. Really, Seinfeld. All the one time events you mentioned still allowed UPS to make a huge profit sand they still want to furlough like they're about to turn the lights off and lock the doors. They speaks volumes.

Applicants are going to stay away in droves. Who wants to fight with a nasty management and work at night when the threat of furlough is the same? Career advancement is also going to be poor going forward.

Nice try selling it though. You scheduled to do Air Inc seminars?

Swedish Blender

Lets be honest. UPS will still get the applicants since the furlough threat is viable everywhere.

In my class, there were 3 8-9 year NWA, 1 9 year AA, 2 20 year USAir, some UAL folks.

I agree that career progression will probably not be as good as some of the legacies, but in 2012, a senior FO at UPS will make 185/hr. I would say that is on par with captains at other carriers.

weatherman

people will stay away from ups in the future after they furlough. many of our junior pilots left legacy airline careers for ups stability. without the stability, ups is not a great place to work. in fact, it is a very lousy place to work. nasty management, night flying, lousy bases for junior pilots, i.e ANC and absolutely no advancement here for the foreseeable future.

the pay is good, but that's about it and many pilots are saying that the ups paycheck is not worth it because it is such a horrible place to work.

i truly feel sorry for the new pilots that moved to anchorage only to have ups furlough them up there. i cannot even imagine the lack of respect and decency the upper levels at ups lack with regard to families they are about to devastate.

The Walrus

They are all the same. It is all about the bling, nothing else. If Fedex were to furlough, they would leave guys in HKG.