Daniel Larusso

If the rumor is true, I bet there is more to the story. The union has made several statements recently that it is time for the company to end 4.a.2.b and how they should do that. It may not be simply about 'a small minority' of the crewforce, it may be about using whatever leverage presents itself to get a better deal for everyone.

Popeye

Remind me the last time the company said, "We're leaving some money on the table. Come and get it. And don't forget to turn the lights out when you leave."

If there is any substance to this idea that the company senses it needs to plus up the LOA, it will be for their own benefit and not for ours. In that case, we should not expend any of our negotiating capital on the subject.

If the folks in HKG are feeling the pain on a sub-standard LOA, they should have heeded the advice that was free flowing before they bid it. No one has suggested doing anything retributive toward the HKG folks for going against the sound advice of the membership. But few of us are willing to knock ourselves out to fix their little problem now. There are plenty of issues that need to be fixed to restore lost earnings and QOL in every other domicile. Those will be first of most lists.

gcsass

Popeye,

I agree 100% with you. There are a lot of things that need fixing. I am not willing to give an inch to get a better LOA. If the company wants to giveth to insure the MD bid goes smoother than the Airbus bid, I am willing to taketh. If we wanted them to come out of 4A2b there are many things that we, collectively, could do to help them see the wisdom of this.

I also am not complaining about the LOA. Is it substandard? Yes. Did I intentionally bid it to avoid the panel, knowing what I was getting into? Yes. Do I want to see changes to the LOA? Yes, as long as it is at no cost to anyone but the company.

The bottom line is they can open an MD domicile in HK with or without an amendment. What might they try to fill the base.....who knows.

iarapilot

[quote=asiabased; [B] They can't just make adjustments on their own. It has to be negotiated. [/B]The rumour is the rest of the block reps will not support an increase in the LOA because HKG was not impacted by 4a2b. I don't like that idea but I see their point.

You would think that would be true. But if one remembers, back when the LOA was put out for vote, and the Company had a hard time filling HKG right seat, they unilaterally added 500lbs to the personal shipping, changed the meaning of STV, and added $10000 of personal assistance money. . This was done without our sole bargaining agent, the Union, being involved!! It was a unilateral bone the Company threw our pilots to fill the R seat. A grievance was submitted, but the Union never filed it. Instead, they bought off on what the Company did. Remember history!

On a similar note, I was told that a guy that jumpseated with JL was told that JL thought that the Union was going to go for $10000 in tuition $$ for the LOA, and he was amazed that they didnt. Second hand info of course.

990Convair

During my 15 years here, whenever it's been quiet, really quiet, something is afoot.

Odds are the company is waiting to put out the FDA bid in conjunction with an "official" exit from 4.a.2.b. That way they can offer the same substandard FDA LOA (perhaps with minor tweaks) and have a greater chance of the bid filling if we are made to believe we "got" something, i.e. an exit from 4.a.2.b.

I also would not be surprised to see additional and accelerated 777 deliveries followed by hiring. Yep, you heard it, hiring.

The company is putting the 757 into Europe in August with normal trips in the bidpack. It'll go senior but you have to wonder why? 20% loss off of the top due to the exchange rate and NB pay intra-theatre. No thanks.

I think the manning model is so gooned up the company can't wait to hire but can't with 4.a.2.b. out there. Don't kid yourself into thinking a lack of OT means the manning is adequate. I have had a draft call each month (took none by the way) for the last 6 months. There have been 87 hour trips go to draft in the right seat of the MD11 and the 777 folks are MAKING A KILLING off of draft/vlt.

Holding trips out until they draft/vlt to fill them is a great way to make it LOOK like all is well in the manning department, but I suspect otherwise.

Just a layperson's opinion though.

Lindy

At my crashpad, 727 F/Os called for draft for trips on 3 May & 4 May.
MD-11 F/O cannot drop R-Days due to insufficient reserves

It isn't just crews....short aircraft! Heard about a trip this week where a MD -11 crew was deadheaded to IND (on a 757) to pick up a spare, fly to airport XXX, bring back freight and the Airbus crew to IND. Airbus crew didn't go because there wasn't a spare Bus in IND.

This isn't peak, it is May (and shouldn't be having scheduling issues).

skypine27

Someone tell that bozo that the MEC acknowledged in 2007 that the money was not enough and that incremental improvements would occur. The folks bid it under a promise of improvements down the road. Those improvements need to show up.

Popeye

BOZO?

You need to put down the crack pipe you bought in Kowloon.

That road you were thinking about has gotten a little bit longer. You may need to keep waiting. I think the verbiage used was "Free Beer Tomorrow". We have a few more fish to fry before we get around to getting for you later what could have been had in the beginning.

AFW_MD11

The union negotiated Settlement Agreement 09-03 which will most likely end 4.A.2.b. in July. They don't need to be "yelling at the top of their lungs" any more because of the Settlement Agreement.

Besides.....4.A.2.b. was all about (ONLY about) the company's way of manipulating the contract language in order to not be required to buy up lines to the 4.A.1. minimums - ALL ABOUT stealing our contractually guaranteed minimum pay.

Since they are already buying up lines again (under the Settlement Agreement) - 4.A.2.b. is pretty much a moo point at this point anyway.

The REAL question that still remains is how much (if any) retro payback we're going to get awarded by the arbitrator of the buy-up money the company has stolen from us during the course of their bogus implementation of 4.A.2.b.

Beyond that, we don't really gain anything more when 4.A.2.b. "ends" - do we?

The Walrus

Moo............................