Latest O'Gram - kidding me...
03-11-2010, 12:03 PM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 97
My best guess would be a "bump and flush excess" from the Bus and 727 L and R seats with 1 excess from every other seat except 777, 757, HKG, and 727 back seat. This allows them to fill a need in the 777 and 757 while drawing down the seats they want. It also prevents peeps in HKG from bidding out since the initial cadres 2 year is up. It would be a sneaky way to fill what are primary vacancies, but what do you expect.
I thought that there was barrier to excessing from a FDA (requires an actual draw down in AC or something to that effect) but I may be wrong.
A single excess from L seat HKG would not necessarily kill POP since any of the other 52 could bid to relieve.
I thought that there was barrier to excessing from a FDA (requires an actual draw down in AC or something to that effect) but I may be wrong.
A single excess from L seat HKG would not necessarily kill POP since any of the other 52 could bid to relieve.
03-11-2010, 12:12 PM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 97
Why wouldn't the 727f/o's that are senior to the most junior HKG captain just bid HKG cap at 100% to relieve excess and get the POP? This is exactly what I did on the last MEM Bus excess and was placed on the virtual POP letter with POP scheduled to start 01/11. I'm around seniority 2900 and still have about 15 guys ahead of me on the virtual letter. You can bid to relieve excess to any position your seniority allows you to hold but you can't create and excess in an FDA, thus POP.
03-11-2010, 12:26 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Heavily Involved
Posts: 473
Maybe the Bean Counters thought an excess would be less expensive than a Primary/Excess?
Hypothetical:
40 727 F/Os excessed = 40 Training Cycles
As FDXLAG pointed out:
1 Excessed 727 F/O could bid Airbus F/O = 1 Training Cycle
additional excessed Bus F/O bids MD-11 F/O = 2 TCs
now, fat on MD-11 F/Os, (not yet announced MD-11 excess),
MD-11 F/O now excessed bids 727 = 3 TCs
now another 727 F/O excessed to 757 = 4 TCs
instead of a "one-for-one" training, it could possibly be up to 4 training cycles per each pilot excessed off the Airbus
(FWIW, the "junior" Bus F/Os are senior to the bottom +/- 60 MD-11 F/Os)
One bid, including Primary and Excess would be less training and would not create the perception of an abrogation of seniority.
My money is on Red 57 !
Hypothetical:
40 727 F/Os excessed = 40 Training Cycles
As FDXLAG pointed out:
1 Excessed 727 F/O could bid Airbus F/O = 1 Training Cycle
additional excessed Bus F/O bids MD-11 F/O = 2 TCs
now, fat on MD-11 F/Os, (not yet announced MD-11 excess),
MD-11 F/O now excessed bids 727 = 3 TCs
now another 727 F/O excessed to 757 = 4 TCs
instead of a "one-for-one" training, it could possibly be up to 4 training cycles per each pilot excessed off the Airbus
(FWIW, the "junior" Bus F/Os are senior to the bottom +/- 60 MD-11 F/Os)
One bid, including Primary and Excess would be less training and would not create the perception of an abrogation of seniority.
My money is on Red 57 !
03-11-2010, 12:47 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Unknown Rider
Posts: 533
Does anyone have an idea how all this is going to be affected as soon as we figure out which end is up concerning Flag ops? Wouldn't this be academic assuming we're going to need a ton of guys in the widebodies just to handle the new rules?
Just wondering...
WM
Just wondering...
WM
03-11-2010, 01:37 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
With BUV and SAM there is a renewed emphasis on not having extra crewmembers on widebody pay. Or on 727 CA or FO pay for that matter.
If the company has to pay buy up, they would rather do it in the cheap seats. All but 727 SO are targets.
If the company has to pay buy up, they would rather do it in the cheap seats. All but 727 SO are targets.
03-11-2010, 01:55 PM
#26
Trust but Verify!!
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
You guys crack me up! When management runs out of idea's how to best legally exploit the crew force via excesses, they float a balloon and let the APC experts figure out how to do it for them! In the words of Pogo.."I have met the bean-counters and they are us!"
03-11-2010, 02:21 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Heavily Involved
Posts: 473
Flag Ops
It would not surprise me one bit if the company sought a FLAG/SUPPLEMENTAL duality to their certificate with intentions of only dispatching certain international flights under flag, and the rest of the airline under supplemental.
They already have us carrying far less gas than 2 years ago. Perhaps we won't need as many as we would think? Just a thought....hopefully.
03-11-2010, 02:30 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Posts: 1,275
Manny,
It would not surprise me one bit if the company sought a FLAG/SUPPLEMENTAL duality to their certificate with intentions of only dispatching certain international flights under flag, and the rest of the airline under supplemental.
They already have us carrying far less gas than 2 years ago. Perhaps we won't need as many as we would think? Just a thought....hopefully.
It would not surprise me one bit if the company sought a FLAG/SUPPLEMENTAL duality to their certificate with intentions of only dispatching certain international flights under flag, and the rest of the airline under supplemental.
They already have us carrying far less gas than 2 years ago. Perhaps we won't need as many as we would think? Just a thought....hopefully.
03-11-2010, 02:33 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Re-reading George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' and getting scared...
Posts: 276
03-11-2010, 02:58 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 425
Is there a response to this mess from the Union ? Why is it, that the Company is allowed to have such "flexibility" with us ? To the guys that are ****ing and moaning about seniority here, go onto next ........................ this is the cards we have been dealt, I don't like 'em either but it ain't goin' away.
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