Union Cards sent to UPS Flt Qual MGRs??
03-11-2010, 05:57 AM
#81
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 28
Of course not...god forbid we **** off someone who needs to make a boat payment.
I also think that we need to have another union constitutional amendment vote. This one would state that unless you are on a NB status it is mandatory to vote in ALL union business. If a member decides not to vote then they will get a $500 special vote assessment that would be put into either the IPA charity fund or an IPA Pilot catastrophic fund.
Lastly, to try to bring this thread back around, anyone know what happened at the FQS come to Hitler meeting?
03-11-2010, 06:53 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: MD11 CPT
Posts: 1,077
Of course not all of the FQS would honor a JA/OT ban. If just 1/2 of them did it would be a incredible improvement over what we have now. BTW I doubt the integration of any FQS would be complete before a couple of years have passed.
How would you punish IPA members who do not follow the JA/OT guidelines? Keep in mind anti harresment laws and company polices.
Getting ride of our non union airline will be beneficial for all of us. As it seems you where not at UPS for any of the contract negotiations you have not seen how the non union pilots are used against the pilot group. In the perfect world we get all the jobs and none of the non union pilots ..... its not a perfect world. If it was i wouldn't have this beer gut.
Lots of more moves left to be made in this game I am sure.
How would you punish IPA members who do not follow the JA/OT guidelines? Keep in mind anti harresment laws and company polices.
Getting ride of our non union airline will be beneficial for all of us. As it seems you where not at UPS for any of the contract negotiations you have not seen how the non union pilots are used against the pilot group. In the perfect world we get all the jobs and none of the non union pilots ..... its not a perfect world. If it was i wouldn't have this beer gut.
Lots of more moves left to be made in this game I am sure.
When I got furloughed way back when, I blamed the company. Only once ALPA not only did absolutely NOTHING to help us AND actually did overt harm did I blame the union along with the company who made the stupid decision in the first place. And even then, that company was losing 100's of millions. But at some point, one would think you'd see that this isn't checkers, it's chess.
While some need as many people to blame as possible for every malady in life, this is starting to get really, really old.
03-11-2010, 08:16 AM
#83
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 358
Yeah ok, here it goes. First I really don't care for the administration and they know it, so no news there. So we integrate these guys, then what. I personally think that I will be screwed that much more, but BT doesn't really give a rats ass about me, but I am ok with that. Lets talk about one thing that no one has touched on yet.
You bring these guys into the fold, I am on the street with 299 others and then you still have an JA/OT ban. Great
Now, what are we currently doing about the 1% of our own that are picking it up NOW? I'll tell you what: NADA, NOTHING, ZIP. So now we take the FQS's that we have granted all of the protections of the IPA while we're all out and guess what? That 1% that was picking up open time just increased by 180 pilots.
What makes anyone think, that these newly anointed IPA members will hold fast on a JA/OT ban? Sure some will, but most will not. Now what, we can't even do #$*% to the guys that are already here and preach IPA unity, now you expect these guys too? Well if you believe that have I got some real estate for you.....
I could go on, but I won't. This was not thought out very well, and most are so busy kissing the ring that we have forgotten about 300 families. But what do I know, I just used to work here.
I speak for MYSELF, not any other member of the "group" so don't take aim at them.
You bring these guys into the fold, I am on the street with 299 others and then you still have an JA/OT ban. Great
Now, what are we currently doing about the 1% of our own that are picking it up NOW? I'll tell you what: NADA, NOTHING, ZIP. So now we take the FQS's that we have granted all of the protections of the IPA while we're all out and guess what? That 1% that was picking up open time just increased by 180 pilots.What makes anyone think, that these newly anointed IPA members will hold fast on a JA/OT ban? Sure some will, but most will not. Now what, we can't even do #$*% to the guys that are already here and preach IPA unity, now you expect these guys too? Well if you believe that have I got some real estate for you.....
I could go on, but I won't. This was not thought out very well, and most are so busy kissing the ring that we have forgotten about 300 families. But what do I know, I just used to work here.
I speak for MYSELF, not any other member of the "group" so don't take aim at them.
I think you are pretty close to hitting the nail on the head. BT is going to do what he wants regardless of the bottom 300. With the exception of getting these guys 2 extra weeks I have not heard of any progress being made with help (medical/cobra) for the guys hitting the street. In fact I have not heard of anything furlough related at all come from the EB, ****?
03-11-2010, 08:58 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 109% IPA
Posts: 159
I sure wish I could make the ANC GMM tomorrow,but I can not. I would bet it is going to be a jungle there tomorrow considering the manager announcement. The video conference meeting I did attend was very heated completely different from the Looneyville meeting (I wonder why). Anyone who is on reserve or lives in ANC and makes the GMM please post notes here Friday thanks.
03-11-2010, 09:08 AM
#85
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Big Brown
Posts: 46
8 and fr8,
Just because you have an opinion doesn't entitle you to bash the people that are trying to help you on a public forum. You are naive to believe the union is doing anything but try to help. You may be getting kicked in the nuts, but we are all taking it in the a$$. The best way through this is to remain together. Just because you haven't seen, or you haven't heard, does not mean that it is not happening. It is disingenuous of you to suggest 300 families are forgotten. I hope you can make your way through your anger and see that. What benefit do you expect otherwise?
Just because you have an opinion doesn't entitle you to bash the people that are trying to help you on a public forum. You are naive to believe the union is doing anything but try to help. You may be getting kicked in the nuts, but we are all taking it in the a$$. The best way through this is to remain together. Just because you haven't seen, or you haven't heard, does not mean that it is not happening. It is disingenuous of you to suggest 300 families are forgotten. I hope you can make your way through your anger and see that. What benefit do you expect otherwise?
03-11-2010, 09:35 AM
#86
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Ok, at the risk of being strung out on a noose.....
FOR PETE'S SAKE PEOPLE! I know there are no pilot jobs out there to be had but you have to take responsibility for yourselves! If that means your wife gets a job flipping burgers or 2 and so do you then so be it! I believe the union is doing everything they can for everyone but you are responsible for YOU and your family, not everyone else. The union (or anyone else in the pilot group) doesn't have to do jack! I'm not on the chopping block (yet!) but if I was I wouldn't be expecting the union to pay for my medical or anything! I would be out there finding whatever job I could and putting things in place to prepare for MYSELF! Christ people...be mad at whoever you want but it's your own responsibility to put food on your own table!
FOR PETE'S SAKE PEOPLE! I know there are no pilot jobs out there to be had but you have to take responsibility for yourselves! If that means your wife gets a job flipping burgers or 2 and so do you then so be it! I believe the union is doing everything they can for everyone but you are responsible for YOU and your family, not everyone else. The union (or anyone else in the pilot group) doesn't have to do jack! I'm not on the chopping block (yet!) but if I was I wouldn't be expecting the union to pay for my medical or anything! I would be out there finding whatever job I could and putting things in place to prepare for MYSELF! Christ people...be mad at whoever you want but it's your own responsibility to put food on your own table!
03-11-2010, 09:44 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Yeah ok, here it goes. First I really don't care for the administration and they know it, so no news there. So we integrate these guys, then what. I personally think that I will be screwed that much more, but BT doesn't really give a rats ass about me, but I am ok with that. Lets talk about one thing that no one has touched on yet.
You bring these guys into the fold, I am on the street with 299 others and then you still have an JA/OT ban. Great Now, what are we currently doing about the 1% of our own that are picking it up NOW? I'll tell you what: NADA, NOTHING, ZIP. So now we take the FQS's that we have granted all of the protections of the IPA while we're all out and guess what? That 1% that was picking up open time just increased by 180 pilots.
What makes anyone think, that these newly anointed IPA members will hold fast on a JA/OT ban? Sure some will, but most will not. Now what, we can't even do #$*% to the guys that are already here and preach IPA unity, now you expect these guys too? Well if you believe that have I got some real estate for you.....
I could go on, but I won't. This was not thought out very well, and most are so busy kissing the ring that we have forgotten about 300 families. But what do I know, I just used to work here.
I speak for MYSELF, not any other member of the "group" so don't take aim at them.
You bring these guys into the fold, I am on the street with 299 others and then you still have an JA/OT ban. Great
Now, what are we currently doing about the 1% of our own that are picking it up NOW? I'll tell you what: NADA, NOTHING, ZIP. So now we take the FQS's that we have granted all of the protections of the IPA while we're all out and guess what? That 1% that was picking up open time just increased by 180 pilots.What makes anyone think, that these newly anointed IPA members will hold fast on a JA/OT ban? Sure some will, but most will not. Now what, we can't even do #$*% to the guys that are already here and preach IPA unity, now you expect these guys too? Well if you believe that have I got some real estate for you.....
I could go on, but I won't. This was not thought out very well, and most are so busy kissing the ring that we have forgotten about 300 families. But what do I know, I just used to work here.
I speak for MYSELF, not any other member of the "group" so don't take aim at them.
1. The furlough UPS decided to execute, was aimed at taking advantage of the $13 million shortfall. UPS is overplaying that hand. Yes, furloughs will happen because UPS must now save face. Again, check the market. The naysayers clearly are not studying the financials. UPS cannot sustain a long furlough if the market remains stabilized. UPS is staffing for a 4th QTR 2008 scenario and it doesn't look like that today.
2. Addressing the 20 year wait on the airline in an airline was finally precipitated by UPS action. A union cannot sit by and let furloughed union pilots be replaced by non union pilots. What part did the union fail to think through?????
3. Offering union job protection is a separate track from the business realities. You make a serious error in assuming the two events are perfectly aligned. They are not aligned any longer. They are going to track separately on the merits of each issue. One scenario is that the final integration will occur after the furlough has ended or everyone recalled. Furlough is ultimately more business related and FQS integration is power and legal related.
4. Your mockery of what the IPA is doing for the 300 plays well for management. It isn't always clean and pretty, but rest assured, much effort is being made to protect the junior 300. Whine and whistle is OK by me if it makes you feel better, but some facts may just give you a more grounded reference point.
03-11-2010, 10:06 AM
#88
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Ok, at the risk of being strung out on a noose.....
FOR PETE'S SAKE PEOPLE! I know there are no pilot jobs out there to be had but you have to take responsibility for yourselves! If that means your wife gets a job flipping burgers or 2 and so do you then so be it! I believe the union is doing everything they can for everyone but you are responsible for YOU and your family, not everyone else. The union (or anyone else in the pilot group) doesn't have to do jack! I'm not on the chopping block (yet!) but if I was I wouldn't be expecting the union to pay for my medical or anything! I would be out there finding whatever job I could and putting things in place to prepare for MYSELF! Christ people...be mad at whoever you want but it's your own responsibility to put food on your own table!
FOR PETE'S SAKE PEOPLE! I know there are no pilot jobs out there to be had but you have to take responsibility for yourselves! If that means your wife gets a job flipping burgers or 2 and so do you then so be it! I believe the union is doing everything they can for everyone but you are responsible for YOU and your family, not everyone else. The union (or anyone else in the pilot group) doesn't have to do jack! I'm not on the chopping block (yet!) but if I was I wouldn't be expecting the union to pay for my medical or anything! I would be out there finding whatever job I could and putting things in place to prepare for MYSELF! Christ people...be mad at whoever you want but it's your own responsibility to put food on your own table!
First off, I hope you are saying this based upon your vast life experiences and airline furloughs. If you are I find it difficult to believe that you think a job flipping burgers could cover COBRA medical coverage for a family, let alone cover other living expenses. Have you travelled this economic reality already ?
And if a smaller group (1800) ALPA pilots could pick up the tab for medical coverage for a comparable amount of furloughed crewmembers (200) on half the income of a typical IPA pilot, we should be ashamed of ourselves if we don't do the same thing.
Awhile back when the whole furlough and MOU was started a year ago, B767pilot asked me privately what I would expect from the IPA. I don't expect a stipend, etc ... but medical coverage for those that do not have access to another form would be the only thing that I think the IPA should do. It is the right thing for a union to do, call me an idealist, whatever ! No man left behind ...
Major medical is the only thing that has me worried. I have a war chest to support my family for quite a long time otherwise. You of all people (expecting mother) should know that good medical care doesn't come cheaply. And it is nothing you should expect another union member to do without, under any circumstances.
You would like that person to watch your back down the road, so don't throw them completely to the side of the road. It won't do any good for either side of the furlough line.
Been there and done that ....
03-11-2010, 10:12 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 320
03-11-2010, 10:12 AM
#90
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 63
Ok, at the risk of being strung out on a noose.....
FOR PETE'S SAKE PEOPLE! I know there are no pilot jobs out there to be had but you have to take responsibility for yourselves! If that means your wife gets a job flipping burgers or 2 and so do you then so be it! I believe the union is doing everything they can for everyone but you are responsible for YOU and your family, not everyone else. The union (or anyone else in the pilot group) doesn't have to do jack! I'm not on the chopping block (yet!) but if I was I wouldn't be expecting the union to pay for my medical or anything! I would be out there finding whatever job I could and putting things in place to prepare for MYSELF! Christ people...be mad at whoever you want but it's your own responsibility to put food on your own table!
FOR PETE'S SAKE PEOPLE! I know there are no pilot jobs out there to be had but you have to take responsibility for yourselves! If that means your wife gets a job flipping burgers or 2 and so do you then so be it! I believe the union is doing everything they can for everyone but you are responsible for YOU and your family, not everyone else. The union (or anyone else in the pilot group) doesn't have to do jack! I'm not on the chopping block (yet!) but if I was I wouldn't be expecting the union to pay for my medical or anything! I would be out there finding whatever job I could and putting things in place to prepare for MYSELF! Christ people...be mad at whoever you want but it's your own responsibility to put food on your own table!
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