highsky

Well, here's the way I see it:

Someone who is willing to put his own needs above the solidarity of the union, by violating the Articles of the union Constitution, or undermining a union action, is clearly missing the concept of "solidarity, and selflessness, before self." He is indifferent to it. So, the question becomes, how to discourage him from going against the program.

If you just carry on "business as usual" with these people, and treat them like "one of the guys," how will they be discouraged? For example, what is it that makes people not want to scab (besides the obvious moral tenets)?...It's NOT a fear of getting bi%#h-slapped and name called in the cockpit--they know that's illegal. What they fear is the ostracism and isolation from their peers.

I don't like crappy, awkward 14 day trips either. That said, there has to be consequences for violating union policy. Someone has to administer the justice, and everyone must have the stomach to do it. Otherwise, there's no disincentive for a member to act in his own self-interest...he'll just let everyone else carry the load and bear the burden of sacrifice. This, of course, erodes the union's leverage, and undermines the collective will and objective.

No non-essential conversation, no drinks at the bar, no meals together, no sightseeing on layovers, etc. None of these things are illegal.

Lydian Psycho

Deem them members in NOT good standings and give their names to UPS. That's what we should do!

757upspilot

HA, thats funny. Now exactly what do you think UPS would do. The answer is nothing.
Given the attitude and arrogance of some of the bottom flushing them out to the street might work well.

Lydian Psycho

They will fire them. You have to be in the union to work here.

Archie Bunker

Who will fire them? WTH are you talking about?

Excuse me, but you're a MD-11 Captain at Brown??

Lydian Psycho

I'm an MD11 Cpt, and you may want to call our lawyer and ask him/her what happens if one is expelled from the IPA. It's interesting what can happen, at least it was a few years ago when I asked. I haven't checked lately but I don't think the law in Kentucky has changed. If my recollection serves me right, you must be in the union to be a line pilot, if expelled then many new doors open up.
If anyone has better info please correct me.

Fireball

You are correct. Ref: Article 3-A Association Membership.

Whether or not UPS would actually fire you remains to be seen. Especially since they are all about union busting. You might end up with a mgmt job though.

Buck92

Well... I can add that during our IPA Welcome dinner during new-hire training, someone specifically asked if we had to join union. The IPA response was something to the effect of "yeah, absolutely NO choice. must be in the union to work the line..." I guess other union shops allow people not to join as long as they still pay full dues, in which case, what's the point? (none of the protection at all of the cost).

So I guess from a theoretical legal standpoint, you ask an interesting question. What would happen if the IPA kicks a pilot to the curb? I can see if it happened during a furlough for picking up OT against the union's wishes (but still legal per the contract) UPS wouldn't work too quickley to can the newly kicked out pilot. Who knows? We should put NO OT or JA during furlough in the next contract.

CactusCrew

While we are at it, no MEF either. Bet NONE of that is possible. That's the grease that makes the system run at their numbers.

767pilot

You do not have to be fired if the union kicks you out. In that case you can remain an employee and pay a fee to the union for it's services that they are obligated to provide for you. Doesn't matter what KY law says. A little thing called the RLA takes precedence