IPA Elections
10-11-2009, 02:19 PM
#71
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
You say above that you have an "expectation that your coworkers will help you out in a time of need..." yet you don't see that as an entitlement mentality? 
You feel "entitled" to help. There is no such "right to assistance". It's NOT your coworkers' responsibility or mandate to provide assistance. Thus, your "expectation" is misguided, in my opinion.
I've copied 757upspilot's definition of a union below and agree with it.
<<The unions job is to protect the union member by negotiating a contract that protects the union member. This is why areas of scope, termination protection, scheduling and the other areas that drive staffing are negotiated. We cannot make a job where one doesn't exist nor keep one that is no longer required. The IPA tried and has so far prevented a layoff of its members via a voluntary MOU. I don't believe we will be able to meet an increased demand from the company and I think they will come to us with an increased demand, regardless of who is sitting in the EB seats. I don't what to see anyone on the street but, the company controls this the IPA doesn't.>>
You feel "entitled" to help. There is no such "right to assistance". It's NOT your coworkers' responsibility or mandate to provide assistance. Thus, your "expectation" is misguided, in my opinion. I've copied 757upspilot's definition of a union below and agree with it.
<<The unions job is to protect the union member by negotiating a contract that protects the union member. This is why areas of scope, termination protection, scheduling and the other areas that drive staffing are negotiated. We cannot make a job where one doesn't exist nor keep one that is no longer required. The IPA tried and has so far prevented a layoff of its members via a voluntary MOU. I don't believe we will be able to meet an increased demand from the company and I think they will come to us with an increased demand, regardless of who is sitting in the EB seats. I don't what to see anyone on the street but, the company controls this the IPA doesn't.>>
I would say that I hope that you will be in the lower 300's shoes one day but I would guess you're senior to me and that would just mean that my butt will be on the line too and I don't really want that. So I'll just try to ignore your banter from now on and pray that I never fly with you.
Last edited by IC ALL; 10-11-2009 at 06:00 PM. Reason: profanity edited out of post
10-11-2009, 02:21 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
If UPS comes for more money or the furlough is back on, offer to freeze the A-Fund until 2012. That would save the required money, and get rid of some of near- dead weight at the top of the list. I bet that would pass easily if sent out to the membership for a vote. Worked here.....
10-11-2009, 02:22 PM
#73
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
You senior/older guys that say us junior guys should just except a furlough because we knew the rules and we just need to accept it should be ashamed of yourselves.
The ONLY reason us junior guys are staring down the barrel of being furloughed is because of the Age 60 rule change.
It is very ignorant and arrogant of you to preach to us about 'entitlement'. We have young children to feed. Get it through your heads!
I'll gladly go out and do manual labor to feed my family, but I will not listen to you old windbags preach to me after your windfall.
Ave Joe. I'd like to know who you are for real, because I'd like you to say those thing to me face to face. I suspect you wouldn't be so bold.
The ONLY reason us junior guys are staring down the barrel of being furloughed is because of the Age 60 rule change.
It is very ignorant and arrogant of you to preach to us about 'entitlement'. We have young children to feed. Get it through your heads!
I'll gladly go out and do manual labor to feed my family, but I will not listen to you old windbags preach to me after your windfall.
Ave Joe. I'd like to know who you are for real, because I'd like you to say those thing to me face to face. I suspect you wouldn't be so bold.
Sadly, I think AvgJoe might possibly be that bold. Luckily I've been out on medical leave for a while but I have buddies up in ANC that have flown with many many guys that have no problem saying this stuff to other's faces.
10-11-2009, 02:42 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
It may come up. The company wanted it before the MOU and the Union recieved a loud and clear message from the membership that contract concessions are not acceptable. Its a very management way of approaching it. You referred to a "here" in a prior post , where is "here". It will be an excellent question to see if SF would find this acceptable.
10-11-2009, 03:02 PM
#76
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 98
Deep thoughts by Jack Handy
S.F. for president
T.K. for secretary
B.T. (pitbull) new and improved contract enforcement (NO EB power)
S.W. fill EB at large rep vacancy due to S.F. being president
I think this group would be a very balanced approach to our new and improved IPA EB.
One thing B.T. said that I have agreed with is how our new and improved EB votes on issues pertaining to the pilot group should be recorded and posted on the IPA website always! I also agree that we need a professional labor law FIRM to assist in negotiations on the next contract.
(Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy)
I wish people who are always pointing fingers at the "Entitled" jr. pilots at UPS would just take a moment to look in the mirror and listen to what they are saying and typing. You sure we are the only ones part of the "Y", "ME", or "Entitled" generation? Or maybe it is that handsome fellow or Gal in the mirror.
(Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy)
Disclaimer I am in the bottom 100
T.K. for secretary
B.T. (pitbull) new and improved contract enforcement (NO EB power)
S.W. fill EB at large rep vacancy due to S.F. being president
I think this group would be a very balanced approach to our new and improved IPA EB.
One thing B.T. said that I have agreed with is how our new and improved EB votes on issues pertaining to the pilot group should be recorded and posted on the IPA website always! I also agree that we need a professional labor law FIRM to assist in negotiations on the next contract.
(Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy)
I wish people who are always pointing fingers at the "Entitled" jr. pilots at UPS would just take a moment to look in the mirror and listen to what they are saying and typing. You sure we are the only ones part of the "Y", "ME", or "Entitled" generation? Or maybe it is that handsome fellow or Gal in the mirror.
(Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy)
Disclaimer I am in the bottom 100
10-11-2009, 03:13 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Brown 747-400
Posts: 524
You say above that you have an "expectation that your coworkers will help you out in a time of need..." yet you don't see that as an entitlement mentality? You feel "entitled" to help. There is no such "right to assistance". It's NOT your coworkers' responsibility or mandate to provide assistance. Thus, your "expectation" is misguided, in my opinion.
You feel "entitled" to help. There is no such "right to assistance". It's NOT your coworkers' responsibility or mandate to provide assistance. Thus, your "expectation" is misguided, in my opinion.When I was at Delta, and the company started furloughing the first of over 1000 pilots in 2001, our union leadership felt the right thing to do was to pay for the furloughees medical/dental/vision benefits, as long as our pilots remained on furlough. A majority of our union members felt this was the least we could do, and voted for this mandatory monthly assessment to help out our brothers that found themselves on the street. I gladly voted in favor of this, as I felt it was the very least I could do, and the very least our union could do to help.
When the furloughs finally caught up to me in 2002, I ended up being the recipient of the union provided medical/dental bennies. I was eternally grateful for this, and I certainly didn't consider it welfare. Like now, decent jobs were very few and far between...let alone jobs with benefits. I received these benefits for the 2 1/2 years I was furloughed, and when I was recalled, I immediately started paying the assessment again for my brothers still on the street.
I'm guessing the reason for your complete lack of empathy is because you've never found yourself in a situation that the bottom 300 are looking at right now. It's real easy to sit back and say "that's the way it's always been," and "you knew the deal when you signed up for this," when your job and livelihood aren't on the line. I suspect that you'd be singing a different tune if your six figure salary had the potential of going to zero in one fell swoop.
10-11-2009, 03:13 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
It was asked and all three candidates basically said they would protect the current retiement in the contract and enhance it if possible.[/quote]
Thanks. I haven't had the chance to get through the recorded session on the IPA site. Just the beginning and I want to be able to sit down a listen to the entire recording at one time Glad to see we have agreement amongst the three running for president.
10-11-2009, 03:24 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Sometimes you just have to laugh at the disconnect. Do you see your two statements above?
Shaggy, you exhibit a welfare mentality. It is not your neighbors' (the taxpayers of this nation) responsibility to provide for you. It is your responsibility to provide for yourself. That is precisely what my wife and I teach our children. I would never accept a handout from my coworkers to provide for my family. That is my responsibility.
In what other facet of american society is it the coworkers' responsibility to provide for a laid off coworker? Aren't you the least bit ashamed to still be seeking a teet to suckle? (philosophically speaking)
Shaggy, you exhibit a welfare mentality. It is not your neighbors' (the taxpayers of this nation) responsibility to provide for you. It is your responsibility to provide for yourself. That is precisely what my wife and I teach our children. I would never accept a handout from my coworkers to provide for my family. That is my responsibility.
In what other facet of american society is it the coworkers' responsibility to provide for a laid off coworker?
Aren't you the least bit ashamed to still be seeking a teet to suckle? (philosophically speaking)With all respect, the MOU is arguably in principle very much like the Mutual Aid Plan. It does exactly what you despise, gives a handout to our coworkers to provide for their family during an unfortunate period. It is voluntary like the MOU. However, by giving, you lose most of your contribution. Sure, I get the benefit of calling it 'insurance', but it is provided off the funds others voluntarily give. The MOU was 'insurance'. Doesn't matter what UPS does with the 'premium'. the business facts are that UPS had every business reason to furlough. For the benefit of a more successful next CBA and like the MAP, take care of families financially, the EB came up with the imperfect MOU. But it does take care of families like MAP.
Is it because you saw no possible money giveback from the MOU because of the seniority that you oppose the concept? Perhaps you are in the minority that does not participate in MAP. If so, at least you are consistent and will apologize for my post. This would be a great discussion because it entails so much that is quite lengthy. Politically, am sure we are very closely aligned, I believe strongly that the individuals should take care of their own neighbors rather that expect the government to do a worse job at greater expense.
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