IPA Elections
10-12-2009, 07:11 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 135
Joe,
Wow...I have to say...your smug attitude is only eclipsed by your arrogance.
It may be news to you, but many of your union brothers in the bottom 300 haven't just faced "potential furloughs," they've already been furloughed from more than one airline for multiple years. Many of us already have that t-shirt. I consider myself lucky that I only have one furlough for 2.5 years under my belt (so far).
Let me ask you this, when you were "unemployed," as you stated above, was it the result of an airline furlough? Have you ever gone from making a solid six figure salary to making nothing? We're not talking about hundreds of millions of others across the globe, or when you were layed off from Walmart making $8 an hour, living at your parent's house, and eating your Mom's pot roast. We're talking about being an adult professional, making good money, with full benefits suddenly being kicked to the curb. We're potentially talking about your union brothers with wives, kids, mortgages, living expenses, etc. Something leads me to believe that you haven't experienced this kind of unemployment in your lifetime. It's your lack of empathy and respect for your co-workers that leads me to this conclusion. When I read your posts, you give off the impression that you wouldn't give us the time of day if we were starving in the gutter.
Here's a hypothetical question for you...if the bottom 300 were furloughed, would you vote to have the union provide for our medical/dental benefits for the duration of our furlough? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Wow...I have to say...your smug attitude is only eclipsed by your arrogance.
It may be news to you, but many of your union brothers in the bottom 300 haven't just faced "potential furloughs," they've already been furloughed from more than one airline for multiple years. Many of us already have that t-shirt. I consider myself lucky that I only have one furlough for 2.5 years under my belt (so far).
Let me ask you this, when you were "unemployed," as you stated above, was it the result of an airline furlough? Have you ever gone from making a solid six figure salary to making nothing? We're not talking about hundreds of millions of others across the globe, or when you were layed off from Walmart making $8 an hour, living at your parent's house, and eating your Mom's pot roast. We're talking about being an adult professional, making good money, with full benefits suddenly being kicked to the curb. We're potentially talking about your union brothers with wives, kids, mortgages, living expenses, etc. Something leads me to believe that you haven't experienced this kind of unemployment in your lifetime. It's your lack of empathy and respect for your co-workers that leads me to this conclusion. When I read your posts, you give off the impression that you wouldn't give us the time of day if we were starving in the gutter.
Here's a hypothetical question for you...if the bottom 300 were furloughed, would you vote to have the union provide for our medical/dental benefits for the duration of our furlough? A simple yes or no will suffice.
You got me on the unemployment thing though. I was hired at birth by UPS so I've never experienced what that's like.
yes......... with a qualifier. As I've said before, when my wife and I sit down and decide which charities we're going to support we feel strongly that OUR money is best utilized to "help those that cannot help themselves". Our other main donation area is medical research.
PS Yes, I've been simultaneously unemployed from a high paying job while my wife was also out of work. Not fun. BUT, we survived and are stronger for it. That period of unemployment has guided many financial decisions since. Countless MILLIONS have been in a similar situation. Why do you feel so special in life that your position ought to be spared from the ravage of a global recession and economic contraction? My out of work friends and neighbors are incredulous that we have people in our union (Shaggy, etc...) demanding coworkers pony up $33,000+ each to temporarily buy their job security. ($100 million divided by 3000 pilots.)
Not one of my unemployed friends or neighbors are demanding that their ex-coworkers pay them a stipend, pay their medical, dental or whatever... they are all out there humping their rears to make ends meet without *****ing about how someone else needs to support them. They literally laugh at the mentality of some on this board that think that it's their coworkers responsibility to provide for them. They would never dream of accepting a handout. They just don't have the welfare mentality.
Last edited by Avg Joe; 10-12-2009 at 07:26 AM.
10-12-2009, 07:22 AM
#113
Permanent Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,682
Archie, your post is EXACTLY what I'm talking about! You qualify different levels of unemployment and proceed to attempt to convince the reader how an airline furlough is going to much more devastating than any other occupation. Apparently your myopia has blinded you from the fact that MILLIONS are out of work in the US from all facets of life: doctors, lawyers, engineers (friend), aerospace, banking, mortgage (friend), insurance, education (neighbor), manufacturing, info tech (2 friends), biotech, research, chemists (next-door neighbor), sales, etc...
You got me on the unemployment thing though. I was hired at birth by UPS so I've never experienced what that's like.
yes......... with a qualifier. As I've said before, when my wife and I sit down and decide which charities we're going to support we feel strongly that OUR money is best utilized to "help those that cannot help themselves". Our other main donation area is medical research.
PS Yes, I've been simultaneously unemployed from a high paying job while my wife was also out of work. Not fun. BUT, we survived and are stronger for it. That period of unemployment has guided many financial decisions since. Countless MILLIONS have been in a similar situation. Why do you feel so special in life that your position ought to be spared from the ravage of a global recession and economic contraction? My out of work friends and neighbors are incredulous that we have people in our union (Shaggy, etc...) demanding coworkers pony up $33,000+ each to temporarily buy their job security. ($100 million divided by 3000 pilots.)
You got me on the unemployment thing though. I was hired at birth by UPS so I've never experienced what that's like.
yes......... with a qualifier. As I've said before, when my wife and I sit down and decide which charities we're going to support we feel strongly that OUR money is best utilized to "help those that cannot help themselves". Our other main donation area is medical research.
PS Yes, I've been simultaneously unemployed from a high paying job while my wife was also out of work. Not fun. BUT, we survived and are stronger for it. That period of unemployment has guided many financial decisions since. Countless MILLIONS have been in a similar situation. Why do you feel so special in life that your position ought to be spared from the ravage of a global recession and economic contraction? My out of work friends and neighbors are incredulous that we have people in our union (Shaggy, etc...) demanding coworkers pony up $33,000+ each to temporarily buy their job security. ($100 million divided by 3000 pilots.)
I don't care what your friends think.
I reserve the right to believe that some people are greedy.
You were hired at the "birth" of UPS Airlines.
Once again, can you HONESTLY say you would feel the same if you were in the bottom 300?
The saying about walking a mile in another's shoes comes to play here.
10-12-2009, 11:18 AM
#114
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Navigatro.....he's twisting Shaggy's posts to try to make Shaggy look greedy and with a sense of entitlement. That way he attempts to make himself look better. If you put lipstick on a pig though.....
Noone here is saying that it is anyone's responsibility to take care of them and give them a handout if they lose their job. The company threatened furloughs and the union came up with a way to prevent them. It was VOLUNTARY, that is true but don't be shocked when someone who is making TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR (and that is base pay ONLY) and doesn't contribute a dime is viewed as greedy and selfish.
Noone here is saying that it is anyone's responsibility to take care of them and give them a handout if they lose their job. The company threatened furloughs and the union came up with a way to prevent them. It was VOLUNTARY, that is true but don't be shocked when someone who is making TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR (and that is base pay ONLY) and doesn't contribute a dime is viewed as greedy and selfish.
Last edited by Freightpuppy; 10-12-2009 at 11:59 AM.
10-12-2009, 12:31 PM
#115
Where's my Mai Tai?
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: fins to the left, fins to the right
Posts: 1,754
Archie, your post is EXACTLY what I'm talking about! You qualify different levels of unemployment and proceed to attempt to convince the reader how an airline furlough is going to much more devastating than any other occupation. Apparently your myopia has blinded you from the fact that MILLIONS are out of work in the US from all facets of life: doctors, lawyers, engineers (friend), aerospace, banking, mortgage (friend), insurance, education (neighbor), manufacturing, info tech (2 friends), biotech, research, chemists (next-door neighbor), sales, etc...
These other fields are portable. They can go somewhere else in the country and use their previous experience to determine pay if they can find work. In our chosen field, everything is seniority. You might be the next Hoover, but you'll get first year pay anywhere you go. Apples and oranges.
10-12-2009, 01:13 PM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: -400 FO
Posts: 300
I can't believe I'm going to jump in this pig sty but your example is a poor snap shot.
These other fields are portable. They can go somewhere else in the country and use their previous experience to determine pay if they can find work. In our chosen field, everything is seniority. You might be the next Hoover, but you'll get first year pay anywhere you go. Apples and oranges.
These other fields are portable. They can go somewhere else in the country and use their previous experience to determine pay if they can find work. In our chosen field, everything is seniority. You might be the next Hoover, but you'll get first year pay anywhere you go. Apples and oranges.
This is a voluntary program. Either he volunteered or he didn't, it was his choice, nothing was mandatory. He knows that. He is just trying to rile up the troops to vote for a candidate.
Avg Joe, if you volunteered thanks, appreciate it, many of us thought the threat was real enough and for the IPA to pull together like this, I thought it was a good thing. It reminded me of one of the reasons I wanted to work here, the unity that the pilots have always shown. Sorry about the conflict bidding and vacation issue. If this is your rub, I truly would like to see contract issues resolved. This contract which was passed before my time is a (arguably) good one and shouldn't be gutted for anyone. That is something we agree about.
Looking at the candidates we have a choice. Militant BT, who doesn't like the MOU and has stated so.
The two other candidates who have built their election behind the MOU, a voluntary program that although not perfect seems to work well for both UPS and the IPA and it's members.
One path seems a lot more divisive to me, but I guess it's all about how you view things.
10-12-2009, 03:18 PM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: MD11 CPT
Posts: 1,077
I can't believe I'm going to jump in this pig sty but your example is a poor snap shot.
These other fields are portable. They can go somewhere else in the country and use their previous experience to determine pay if they can find work. In our chosen field, everything is seniority. You might be the next Hoover, but you'll get first year pay anywhere you go. Apples and oranges.
These other fields are portable. They can go somewhere else in the country and use their previous experience to determine pay if they can find work. In our chosen field, everything is seniority. You might be the next Hoover, but you'll get first year pay anywhere you go. Apples and oranges.
As for Average's contention that his friends are shocked by the "sense of entitlement" by some of our ranks, I'll say that I don't see it as a sense of entitlement (by Shaggy in particular as I know him), but I see it as a badge of honor in so much as within our ranks we look out for each other more than the cubicle monkeys in other business' that would sell out their "close friends" for very little and stab each other in the backs to move up...all the while smiling to their faces.
10-12-2009, 03:26 PM
#118
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Also, in many other fields if one has to go to work for another employer in the same field, it's most often a lateral move in pay unlike seniority based pilot jobs. That's why, even though the top end pay wasn't potentially as good as a carrier job, furloughed friends of mine have gone to corporate jobs with moderately good pay instead of to a 26K job with the likely vaporous promise of big bucks. After awhile getting back "on the horse" is sometimes just too high.
As for Average's contention that his friends are shocked by the "sense of entitlement" by some of our ranks, I'll say that I don't see it as a sense of entitlement (by Shaggy in particular as I know him), but I see it as a badge of honor in so much as within our ranks we look out for each other more than the cubicle monkeys in other business' that would sell out their "close friends" for very little and stab each other in the backs to move up...all the while smiling to their faces.
As for Average's contention that his friends are shocked by the "sense of entitlement" by some of our ranks, I'll say that I don't see it as a sense of entitlement (by Shaggy in particular as I know him), but I see it as a badge of honor in so much as within our ranks we look out for each other more than the cubicle monkeys in other business' that would sell out their "close friends" for very little and stab each other in the backs to move up...all the while smiling to their faces.
Yes indeed, we are UNION ... what more is there to say ?
10-12-2009, 03:51 PM
#119
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
Forget it Shaggy, the words "brotherhood," "labor union" and "taking care of each other" aren't in this guy's vocabulary. 300 pilots kicked to the curb? Doesn't affect him...not his problem. Besides, his friends are incredulous at our "demands."
I wonder if Joe will be one of the "open time feeders" if a furlough is ever announced?
I wonder if Joe will be one of the "open time feeders" if a furlough is ever announced?
10-12-2009, 04:31 PM
#120
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Heard today that the company is looking at the bottom 450. I think I am smart by bidding the 400, maybe with that type I will be able to land another job, if not I can always go back to the USAF! I'll be ok and so will everyone else and if not you all can come live with me!
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