FDX - 4.a.2.b theft
10-09-2009, 06:46 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
The money (ie, the 50 cents per credit hour) that goes into the fund, is not really from your pay. It was a negotiated add-on that allows them to take the 50 cents/hr from your check, without actually penalizing you the 50 cents. What you might not know is that the add-on (the very same 50 cents per credit hour) was added on top of your already negotiated pay rate...
All these 50 cents per hour are deposited into a trust fund, with the understanding that these monies become available once you (every pilot on the property, and some who've already left) turn age 65.
As for the 25K VEBA, none of that money came from the crew force. It was funded entirely by the company. Granted, some were lucky enough to be "within the group", while the rest were unfortunate enough to be to young to have gotten in.
JJ
All these 50 cents per hour are deposited into a trust fund, with the understanding that these monies become available once you (every pilot on the property, and some who've already left) turn age 65.
As for the 25K VEBA, none of that money came from the crew force. It was funded entirely by the company. Granted, some were lucky enough to be "within the group", while the rest were unfortunate enough to be to young to have gotten in.
JJ
The factual way to think of this is if VEBA had not been put on the table we would have avoided the penalty to our paychecks. The company DID NOT pay us more just because we wanted VEBA. We paid for it! Do you really think we would have settled for a lower payraise if the VEBA part didn't work out? We would have asked for the money to be spent elsewhere.
Not true about the 25K just coming from the company. Half of that was scope penalty due us anyway. That money should have been distributed to the membership instead of being given to a select group that wanted more than their fair share. Does the training date swap debacle fit this mold? I think it does.
Welcome to the zero sum world of contract negotiation. When your focus is on VEBA, A380 rates, 1 to 3.75 rig and grid penalties you get what we got. That includes the ever tightening optimizer and 4a2b noose.
My point from earlier was that guys like Foxhunter can gloat all they want because they got the lion share of wonderful things in the last contract. It's all about them and they see no reason for that trend to change. All initiatives MUST assist the most senior and, if necessary, can come out of the hide of everyone else. Theirs is a steady march for more of what you have or want.
Last edited by Gunter; 10-09-2009 at 07:08 PM.
10-09-2009, 07:38 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
I think we got what we got, not because we focused on that stuff...I think we got what we got because we are a weak, splintered, self-centered bunch of individuals that belong to a union. We don't act like one, we just like to wear the lanyards.
10-11-2009, 04:14 PM
#64
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: AERO
Posts: 48
With VEBA, the most junior and lowest paid pilots are paying the highest percentage of their pay since everyone pays an equal 50 cents per credit hour. What ever happened to percentage? Kind of a joke since by the time the most junior guys are ready to retire, VEBA will most likely be gone. Your welcome again top 25% of the seniority list...
10-11-2009, 05:06 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
Surely you're not this naive. Nothing in a contract is "funded by the company". It's a zero sum game. If we had said "Don't worry about the VEBA, just tack 50 cents onto our pay rate", they'd have said "Sure, whatever. We'll put it wherever. But the pay rate increase will be more like 35 cents because of the 401k/pension effects".
The company doesn't fund jack squat. The company agrees to a total cost number on a contract. We could use it to put in a hot tub and sauna at the AOC and they wouldn't care.
PIPE
The company doesn't fund jack squat. The company agrees to a total cost number on a contract. We could use it to put in a hot tub and sauna at the AOC and they wouldn't care.
PIPE
Yeah, I guess I'm that naive. The reason I say this is that it was the union that wanted this VEBA fund, not the company. As well, as it was explained to me by one of our union folks, the pay scales had already been negotiated to and signed off on, before the 50 cents/CH was put on the table and negotiated, so to me, this means that even if VEBA had never come up, the pay scale would be exactly as it is now.
AirHead328,
I guess I don't see it quite the same way you do, because to see it your way, the assumption one needs to make is that if we hadn't gotten VEBA, then the pay scales would have been increased. I'm not sure that's valid, because there were 27 other sections of the contract that could have sucked up those additional funds. As for your percentage issue, since the 50 cents was added to the pay scale, specifically to pay for VEBA, I'm wondering if it's reasonable to look at these monies as an actual payroll deduction. These monies are pooled for the use of all FedEx pilots, not just the top 25%. The fact is that you'll have use of the pool money when you turn 65, and believe me, you'll be very glad that it's there for you.
JJ
10-12-2009, 08:10 AM
#66
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 77
Except by this time this contract is ratified, we won't have any pilots on board with under five years... otherwise I think that is a great idea. Without a doubt, first year new hire pay has got to be higher!
10-12-2009, 12:21 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
FDX $59/ch (as of next month)
AA $35
DAL $52
SWA $52
UAL $33
USAir $39 (AWA) or $25 (USAir East)
and to be fair
Atlas $75 (All figures from APC)
We have better first year pay than almost any other carrier you might possibly want to work for.
10-12-2009, 12:25 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Why? While I agree that the training pay of $2000/mo needs to be raised, our first year pay is better than most.
FDX $59/ch (as of next month)
AA $35
DAL $52
SWA $52
UAL $33
USAir $39 (AWA) or $25 (USAir East)
and to be fair
Atlas $75 (All figures from APC)
We have better first year pay than almost any other carrier you might possibly want to work for.
FDX $59/ch (as of next month)
AA $35
DAL $52
SWA $52
UAL $33
USAir $39 (AWA) or $25 (USAir East)
and to be fair
Atlas $75 (All figures from APC)
We have better first year pay than almost any other carrier you might possibly want to work for.
. Because a second year guy who isn't 3 months behind on his credit cards is less likely to turn into a dp flying 140 hour a month parasite. No offense intended to you wannabe 120 hour a month parasites.
10-12-2009, 12:51 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
How often do you say that around the AOC without getting ugly looks?
If you apply this logic to relocating overseas, even for pilots, we would have obtained more for the FDA LOA.
So, no, I don't think this argument fits.
Last edited by Gunter; 10-12-2009 at 01:46 PM.
10-12-2009, 12:56 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Finally Facing Forward
Posts: 216
Because it wont cost us anything (tell them to take it out of veba). Because it is the right thing to do . Because a second year guy who isn't 3 months behind on his credit cards is less likely to turn into a dp flying 140 hour a month parasite. No offense intended to you wannabe 120 hour a month parasites.
. Because a second year guy who isn't 3 months behind on his credit cards is less likely to turn into a dp flying 140 hour a month parasite. No offense intended to you wannabe 120 hour a month parasites.Last edited by SeeDub; 10-12-2009 at 01:02 PM. Reason: additional thought
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