Purple or Brown?????
09-30-2009, 07:26 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
CC,
You've gotta be kidding me. Did you read that post? Half of his theory is nothing more than his beliefs and not supported by anything but his hope. As an example, 10 years ago, UPS had roughly 2000 pilots, and now, 10 years later, you have roughly 2900, with the company stating that they could easily furlough 300. So where did the author come up with the number (near) 4000 pilots 10 years from now. Or "UPS will get a larger share of the postal contract, eventually." And he knows this how? But my by-far favorite is "With a weakened fdx and dhl out of the domestic market ups is poised for a market share grab when the economy rebounds, and it will eventually." OK, please explain why FedEx left the domestic market, and while you're at it, how long is "eventually" anyway.
Look, this has been a most interesting thread, with lots of good stuff, until (imo) that post, and I certainly can't argue with someone picking a company and sticking with it, in fact I applaud him for his choice and his desire to see UPS (and by default, hopefully, the pilots) prosper, however, it might be time for him to take off those rose colored glasses, or at least review his post with a more critical eye. If that makes you think less of me, oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with another person pointing to my obvious lack of intelligence. But I'd recommend getting in line, right behind my wife, my son, and half the guys I know.
Best regards,
JJ
You've gotta be kidding me. Did you read that post? Half of his theory is nothing more than his beliefs and not supported by anything but his hope. As an example, 10 years ago, UPS had roughly 2000 pilots, and now, 10 years later, you have roughly 2900, with the company stating that they could easily furlough 300. So where did the author come up with the number (near) 4000 pilots 10 years from now. Or "UPS will get a larger share of the postal contract, eventually." And he knows this how? But my by-far favorite is "With a weakened fdx and dhl out of the domestic market ups is poised for a market share grab when the economy rebounds, and it will eventually." OK, please explain why FedEx left the domestic market, and while you're at it, how long is "eventually" anyway.
Look, this has been a most interesting thread, with lots of good stuff, until (imo) that post, and I certainly can't argue with someone picking a company and sticking with it, in fact I applaud him for his choice and his desire to see UPS (and by default, hopefully, the pilots) prosper, however, it might be time for him to take off those rose colored glasses, or at least review his post with a more critical eye. If that makes you think less of me, oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with another person pointing to my obvious lack of intelligence. But I'd recommend getting in line, right behind my wife, my son, and half the guys I know.
Best regards,
JJ
09-30-2009, 08:27 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 357
I am humble and know that I was one of the luckiest sob's ever. In 2005 I had job offers from UPS, FDX, Airtran, Geminii, and SWA. I chose UPS but thought about leaving for FDX before the contract was finished.
I'm glad I stayed. I've been treated very well at UPS and have no complaints. I think we have a much better future than FDX based on the business and labor climates. The FDX ground side will be unionized; it's just a matter of time. Ups will get a larger share of the postal contract eventually. Just look at what a small portion we have now comparatively. Ups is still a newly public company. They have always done things much more slowly than FDX but that is changing--Wall St is forcing it. Ups is much better run fiscally than fdx. With a weakened fdx and dhl out of the domestic market ups is poised for a market share grab when the economy rebounds, and it will eventually. In 10 years I expect ups to have near 4000 pilots and fdx to have about the same they do now.
I'm glad I stayed. I've been treated very well at UPS and have no complaints. I think we have a much better future than FDX based on the business and labor climates. The FDX ground side will be unionized; it's just a matter of time. Ups will get a larger share of the postal contract eventually. Just look at what a small portion we have now comparatively. Ups is still a newly public company. They have always done things much more slowly than FDX but that is changing--Wall St is forcing it. Ups is much better run fiscally than fdx. With a weakened fdx and dhl out of the domestic market ups is poised for a market share grab when the economy rebounds, and it will eventually. In 10 years I expect ups to have near 4000 pilots and fdx to have about the same they do now.
The real growth for pilots is internationally. So take a look at FedEx with their new massive investment in China. They are working at installing the same system we have in the US in Asia and Europe. With UPS being about 10 years behing FedEx internationally, FedEx might see more growth faster.
So, the real dilemma for a new hire is; do you want to go to the Hong Kong base as your first assignment and possibly not get back to the US for 5-10 years.
09-30-2009, 08:48 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 101
CC,
You've gotta be kidding me. Did you read that post? Half of his theory is nothing more than his beliefs and not supported by anything but his hope. As an example, 10 years ago, UPS had roughly 2000 pilots, and now, 10 years later, you have roughly 2900, with the company stating that they could easily furlough 300. So where did the author come up with the number (near) 4000 pilots 10 years from now. Or "UPS will get a larger share of the postal contract, eventually." And he knows this how? But my by-far favorite is "With a weakened fdx and dhl out of the domestic market ups is poised for a market share grab when the economy rebounds, and it will eventually." OK, please explain why FedEx left the domestic market, and while you're at it, how long is "eventually" anyway.
Look, this has been a most interesting thread, with lots of good stuff, until (imo) that post, and I certainly can't argue with someone picking a company and sticking with it, in fact I applaud him for his choice and his desire to see UPS (and by default, hopefully, the pilots) prosper, however, it might be time for him to take off those rose colored glasses, or at least review his post with a more critical eye. If that makes you think less of me, oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with another person pointing to my obvious lack of intelligence. But I'd recommend getting in line, right behind my wife, my son, and half the guys I know.
Best regards,
JJ
You've gotta be kidding me. Did you read that post? Half of his theory is nothing more than his beliefs and not supported by anything but his hope. As an example, 10 years ago, UPS had roughly 2000 pilots, and now, 10 years later, you have roughly 2900, with the company stating that they could easily furlough 300. So where did the author come up with the number (near) 4000 pilots 10 years from now. Or "UPS will get a larger share of the postal contract, eventually." And he knows this how? But my by-far favorite is "With a weakened fdx and dhl out of the domestic market ups is poised for a market share grab when the economy rebounds, and it will eventually." OK, please explain why FedEx left the domestic market, and while you're at it, how long is "eventually" anyway.
Look, this has been a most interesting thread, with lots of good stuff, until (imo) that post, and I certainly can't argue with someone picking a company and sticking with it, in fact I applaud him for his choice and his desire to see UPS (and by default, hopefully, the pilots) prosper, however, it might be time for him to take off those rose colored glasses, or at least review his post with a more critical eye. If that makes you think less of me, oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with another person pointing to my obvious lack of intelligence. But I'd recommend getting in line, right behind my wife, my son, and half the guys I know.
Best regards,
JJ
09-30-2009, 09:38 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
CC,
You've gotta be kidding me. Did you read that post? Half of his theory is nothing more than his beliefs and not supported by anything but his hope. As an example, 10 years ago, UPS had roughly 2000 pilots, and now, 10 years later, you have roughly 2900, with the company stating that they could easily furlough 300. So where did the author come up with the number (near) 4000 pilots 10 years from now. Or "UPS will get a larger share of the postal contract, eventually." And he knows this how? But my by-far favorite is "With a weakened fdx and dhl out of the domestic market ups is poised for a market share grab when the economy rebounds, and it will eventually." OK, please explain why FedEx left the domestic market, and while you're at it, how long is "eventually" anyway.
Look, this has been a most interesting thread, with lots of good stuff, until (imo) that post, and I certainly can't argue with someone picking a company and sticking with it, in fact I applaud him for his choice and his desire to see UPS (and by default, hopefully, the pilots) prosper, however, it might be time for him to take off those rose colored glasses, or at least review his post with a more critical eye. If that makes you think less of me, oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with another person pointing to my obvious lack of intelligence. But I'd recommend getting in line, right behind my wife, my son, and half the guys I know.
Best regards,
JJ
You've gotta be kidding me. Did you read that post? Half of his theory is nothing more than his beliefs and not supported by anything but his hope. As an example, 10 years ago, UPS had roughly 2000 pilots, and now, 10 years later, you have roughly 2900, with the company stating that they could easily furlough 300. So where did the author come up with the number (near) 4000 pilots 10 years from now. Or "UPS will get a larger share of the postal contract, eventually." And he knows this how? But my by-far favorite is "With a weakened fdx and dhl out of the domestic market ups is poised for a market share grab when the economy rebounds, and it will eventually." OK, please explain why FedEx left the domestic market, and while you're at it, how long is "eventually" anyway.
Look, this has been a most interesting thread, with lots of good stuff, until (imo) that post, and I certainly can't argue with someone picking a company and sticking with it, in fact I applaud him for his choice and his desire to see UPS (and by default, hopefully, the pilots) prosper, however, it might be time for him to take off those rose colored glasses, or at least review his post with a more critical eye. If that makes you think less of me, oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with another person pointing to my obvious lack of intelligence. But I'd recommend getting in line, right behind my wife, my son, and half the guys I know.
Best regards,
JJ
However, reread your post #15, the last portion of it. Maybe he does need to take his rose colored glasses off but at the same token maybe you need to let go of your hate for ups?
Your experiences were litteraly a pilot's lifetime ago and to use your scaremonger tactics is just unfair in my view. I'm sure people still get mistreated here at big brown but talking to some of my junior purple friends and reading some threads here on apc, FDX is not perfect either.
Your friends probably keep telling you all those horror stories because they know that's what you're craving. The first step in your recovery is to admit that you're an addict - you're are a brown-sucks junky!
Ultimately it doesn't matter, 10 years from now we'll all be feeder pilots for Yangtzee River Express or Shenzen Airlines.
10-01-2009, 04:18 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
AV8OR,
First of all, believe it or not, I don't hate UPS. I do hate the lousy experiences I had while there, but have a number of good friends who are still flying for you. We talk often, and the impression I get is that although a lot has changed for the better, the basic way that guys are treated, still stinks. So what I was saying to my FedEx brethren, who are very much spoiled (even though some don't know it) is that things could be so much worse (at FedEx.) Stuff that FedEx has allowed guys to get away with over the years would have gotten any pilot who tried it at UPS fired, in a New York minute.
As for you UPS pilots, I think you guys are better people than we (FedEx pilots), if for no other reason than you continue to wear those brown uniforms, which you must know, makes no one look good. As for IPA, youse guys rock. Seriously, a first class operation and always has been.
JJ
First of all, believe it or not, I don't hate UPS. I do hate the lousy experiences I had while there, but have a number of good friends who are still flying for you. We talk often, and the impression I get is that although a lot has changed for the better, the basic way that guys are treated, still stinks. So what I was saying to my FedEx brethren, who are very much spoiled (even though some don't know it) is that things could be so much worse (at FedEx.) Stuff that FedEx has allowed guys to get away with over the years would have gotten any pilot who tried it at UPS fired, in a New York minute.
As for you UPS pilots, I think you guys are better people than we (FedEx pilots), if for no other reason than you continue to wear those brown uniforms, which you must know, makes no one look good. As for IPA, youse guys rock. Seriously, a first class operation and always has been.
JJ
10-01-2009, 04:21 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 141
The job security at FDX is largely impacted by the postal current. I've personally heard senior UPS airline officials say and read statements by senior UPS leaders stating that they want to grab a larger share of the postal contract in the future. FDX does not have a guarantee to hold the lion's share of that contract forever. My point is simply that UPS's share is likely to increase and FDX's to decrease.
FDX has unfairly benefitted from the fact that they have gotten to play by a different set of rules. The Railway Labor Act should not be governing FDX ground employees. WHEN this changes FDX will lose the competitive advantage they have always had. Despite having this advantage UPS has been able to compete fairly well with FDX. When the playing field is leveled, UPS will benefit greatly and FDX will suffer. That's why FDX has paid for that ridiculous "No Bailout for UPS" campaign.
Yes the growth will be international and not domestic. I don't know how exactly FDX is positioned in Asia, but I do know UPS is heavily invested in China and operates more efficiently domestically.
Both are great companies and are the two best 121 pilot jobs left. I just think FDX has some risk the next few years. JetJok working at UPS for a year back in the early 90s gives him insight to the beginning of the airline, but he has no idea what it's like to work here now.
FDX has unfairly benefitted from the fact that they have gotten to play by a different set of rules. The Railway Labor Act should not be governing FDX ground employees. WHEN this changes FDX will lose the competitive advantage they have always had. Despite having this advantage UPS has been able to compete fairly well with FDX. When the playing field is leveled, UPS will benefit greatly and FDX will suffer. That's why FDX has paid for that ridiculous "No Bailout for UPS" campaign.
Yes the growth will be international and not domestic. I don't know how exactly FDX is positioned in Asia, but I do know UPS is heavily invested in China and operates more efficiently domestically.
Both are great companies and are the two best 121 pilot jobs left. I just think FDX has some risk the next few years. JetJok working at UPS for a year back in the early 90s gives him insight to the beginning of the airline, but he has no idea what it's like to work here now.
10-01-2009, 04:26 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
I will try to refrain from calling you an maroon when saying the RLA does not apply to Fedex Ground. It applies to Fedex Express. This statement of yours undermines anything else you post. Fedex Ground employees are free to organize under the Wagner Act if they so choose.
And yes I know how to spell moron.
And yes I know how to spell moron.
10-01-2009, 04:37 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
AV8OR,
First of all, believe it or not, I don't hate UPS. I do hate the lousy experiences I had while there, but have a number of good friends who are still flying for you. We talk often, and the impression I get is that although a lot has changed for the better, the basic way that guys are treated, still stinks. So what I was saying to my FedEx brethren, who are very much spoiled (even though some don't know it) is that things could be so much worse (at FedEx.) Stuff that FedEx has allowed guys to get away with over the years would have gotten any pilot who tried it at UPS fired, in a New York minute.
As for you UPS pilots, I think you guys are better people than we (FedEx pilots), if for no other reason than you continue to wear those brown uniforms, which you must know, makes no one look good. As for IPA, youse guys rock. Seriously, a first class operation and always has been.
JJ
First of all, believe it or not, I don't hate UPS. I do hate the lousy experiences I had while there, but have a number of good friends who are still flying for you. We talk often, and the impression I get is that although a lot has changed for the better, the basic way that guys are treated, still stinks. So what I was saying to my FedEx brethren, who are very much spoiled (even though some don't know it) is that things could be so much worse (at FedEx.) Stuff that FedEx has allowed guys to get away with over the years would have gotten any pilot who tried it at UPS fired, in a New York minute.
As for you UPS pilots, I think you guys are better people than we (FedEx pilots), if for no other reason than you continue to wear those brown uniforms, which you must know, makes no one look good. As for IPA, youse guys rock. Seriously, a first class operation and always has been.
JJ
I do agree with ToStayorGo when it comes to having a "fair competition." I don't care which laws apply to us or to them as long as both airlines work under the same set of rules. The fact we started as a trucking company (technically a bicycle messenger company) and y'all as an airline is irrelevant today because we both have airplanes AND trucks. So they should come up with a way of putting us both under the same set of rules.
I vote for the ALPA/IPA Labor Act!
...and while we're at it, only imagine the strength of a combined Cargo Airline Pilots Association (also known as FreightDoggsBite) would have!
Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 10-01-2009 at 05:02 AM. Reason: Because typing on the iPhone ain't easy!
10-01-2009, 04:46 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 141
I will try to refrain from calling you an maroon when saying the RLA does not apply to Fedex Ground. It applies to Fedex Express. This statement of yours undermines anything else you post. Fedex Ground employees are free to organize under the Wagner Act if they so choose.
And yes I know how to spell moron.
And yes I know how to spell moron.
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