FDX: ACARS block out time changes
08-24-2009, 09:02 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 211
[QUOTE
Just for clarification ... Are you calling for pushback and releasing the brake at 1500z. Ramp responds hold your position for traffic. Then you receive actual pushback clearance at 1515z when the alley clears. So your "ramp operations" goes back and adjusts the aircraft "OUT" time to 1515z ?[/QUOTE]
Doors closed, tug hooked up, brake released, beacon on acars says you blocked out. (tug driver moved us a bit). ramp tower holds the pushback for traffic, then changes your out time to match their radio call. our definition of pay is block out to block in, so for long flights it can add up.
Just for clarification ... Are you calling for pushback and releasing the brake at 1500z. Ramp responds hold your position for traffic. Then you receive actual pushback clearance at 1515z when the alley clears. So your "ramp operations" goes back and adjusts the aircraft "OUT" time to 1515z ?[/QUOTE]
Doors closed, tug hooked up, brake released, beacon on acars says you blocked out. (tug driver moved us a bit). ramp tower holds the pushback for traffic, then changes your out time to match their radio call. our definition of pay is block out to block in, so for long flights it can add up.
08-24-2009, 09:05 AM
#12
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
[QUOTE
Just for clarification ... Are you calling for pushback and releasing the brake at 1500z. Ramp responds hold your position for traffic. Then you receive actual pushback clearance at 1515z when the alley clears. So your "ramp operations" goes back and adjusts the aircraft "OUT" time to 1515z
Doors closed, tug hooked up, brake released, beacon on acars says you blocked out. (tug driver moved us a bit). ramp tower holds the pushback for traffic, then changes your out time to match their radio call. our definition of pay is block out to block in, so for long flights it can add up.
Just for clarification ... Are you calling for pushback and releasing the brake at 1500z. Ramp responds hold your position for traffic. Then you receive actual pushback clearance at 1515z when the alley clears. So your "ramp operations" goes back and adjusts the aircraft "OUT" time to 1515z
Doors closed, tug hooked up, brake released, beacon on acars says you blocked out. (tug driver moved us a bit). ramp tower holds the pushback for traffic, then changes your out time to match their radio call. our definition of pay is block out to block in, so for long flights it can add up.
08-24-2009, 09:13 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Just for clarification ... Are you calling for pushback and releasing the brake at 1500z. Ramp responds hold your position for traffic. Then you receive actual pushback clearance at 1515z when the alley clears. So your "ramp operations" goes back and adjusts the aircraft "OUT" time to 1515z ?
Did the ramp tower clear you to push, and subsequently hold you for traffic? If not, I'd say they have every right to adjust the block out time.
It may come as a surprise to some...But, we don't really decide when we are going to block out on a flight.
08-24-2009, 09:28 AM
#14
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
But what is your FAA approved timekeeping system ? Is it ACARS ? Or is it ramp operations ? Or is it the Captain ? Or the Chief Pilot ?
I'm just saying that it should be stated in your Ops Manual what is the official system ? What is the back-up system ?
Maybe these are the appropriate questions to consider ...
08-24-2009, 09:40 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Not sure you want to push that too far! What is the FAA definition of (Block) flight time? I believe you will find it says that it starts from the time the aircraft moves under it's own power to the time it stops moving under it's own power. Neither push back nor tow in are included.
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:
PART 1—DEFINITIONS AND ABBREVIATIONS
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or
(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:
PART 1—DEFINITIONS AND ABBREVIATIONS
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or
(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.
Block-out
Block-out occurs the moment an aircraft first moves from the blocks for the purpose of flight or repositioning on the airport (including pushback or tow). Block-out time is automatically determined by ACARS equipped aircraft
08-24-2009, 09:44 AM
#18
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
08-24-2009, 10:15 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
I'm not arguing about what determines block out time. We use ACARS, when equipped.
But, when the ACARS time is obviously incorrect, they can and will, correct it. Have you ever had an ACARs initialize with the wrong current time? I've had them send times that were off by 15 hours. And guess what, they corrected them.
At FDX, if they haven't cleared you to push, ACARS shouldn't block you out.
But, when the ACARS time is obviously incorrect, they can and will, correct it. Have you ever had an ACARs initialize with the wrong current time? I've had them send times that were off by 15 hours. And guess what, they corrected them.
At FDX, if they haven't cleared you to push, ACARS shouldn't block you out.
08-24-2009, 10:27 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
That is correct because that is the way it is addressed in the contract. The FAA could care less if the push time is changed because it does not meet their definition.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
