filejw

- trying to negotiate that anyone flying past age 60 remains in a reduced pay 4.a.2.b status until retirement

FYI I'm not for the age 65 thing but your idea is against the law and it has zero to do with airlines....

Jetjok

I guess that some of you still don't get it. You will all become ND's, it's just a matter of time. In the meantime, instead of talking about negotiating disincentives and flattening out the pay scale and other seniority based benefits, perhaps you should be looking into clarifying and enhancing the contractual language of the next contract, so that misinterpretation and/or misrepresentation by the company, of a large number of work rules cannot ruin either pay or QOL for the crew force.

Mark, what year will you become a ND? How about the rest of you?

JJ

Busboy

I agree. With the way they've cranked up the "sodomizer", we all may be closer to becoming NDs(literally), than we think.

FLMD11CAPT

Given the current state of the industry we should not even open sections 3&7 . We are currently in the top tier pay wise (if not the highest paid/hr) and have a killer vacation policy. I feel we should prioritize Work rules/scheduling (sect 25), Retirement (sect 28), Insurance (sect27), Training (sect 11), Hours of Service (sect 12) and Min Guar/Other Pay provisions (sect 4); in that order of precedence. Yes there are other "1 off" issues in other sections, and they will be brought to light by the surveys and polls currently underway by the MEC. The point is we must all participate, contribute and make our wishes known via these vehicles. A well documented organized and published game plan is in all of our best interests. So when that call comes from the Wilson Center at that oh so inconvienent time.....make the time and take the survey.

MD11Fr8Dog

My plan is to be retired prior to attaining ND status, unless of course I can find a way to go out on medical and milk the system!

Daniel Larusso

We will all get older for sure, but we won't be ND's unless the retirement age is changed again. The ND's now and those that retire before their is any change to the contractual retirement age is made are the ones who win big relatively speaking. The rest of us will just get to work five years longer to achieve potentially the same benefit, although probably less because the seat progression hit during these years probably won't be totally overcome by most of us.

Baja

Exactly. I read this forum little but when I do I just shake my head. Regardless of what some wish were to happen to some other segment of the seniority list, the bottom line is you are shooting yourselves in the foot. There is one and ONLY one way any pilot groups obtains a beneficial contract and that one thing is UNITY. That typically means everyone across the board sees their sacred cow issue minimalized for the good of the overall contract. If internal battles break out, the resulting contract is less than it would have been ... but since we have no way to see what "might have been", we repeat the process by pointing fingers at segments of the group that wanted their one issue addressed or else they would take their ball and go home. The winner is always management in such a case. And that's why management doesn't have to change their play book. Pilots repeat the same mistakes over and over.

FDXLAG

Yeah, just because some of us got a 25K (2006 dollars) retirement bonus at the expense of the rest of us. Shut up and take it. You wil all get to hose the Jr guys when it is your turn.

Jetjok

The vast majority of you will become ND's, based on the definition that appears to be a combination of the following: 1) super senior, or "at the top of the seniority list"; coupled with 2) any age over about 50; and 3) a captain. With that in mind, it's just a matter of time, so I would recommend again that you concentrate your efforts, not in reducing or eliminating benefits for the senior guys, but for defining exactly what the needs are for this crew force, going forward.

As for "finding a way to go out on medical and milking the system", I'd suggest that the climb to the top is hardly worth the view. Open heart surgery and 5 bypasses is not a walk in the park. As well, going from a productive member of a very skilled occupation, to a non-contributing, stand on the sidelines guy, type A personality, is more difficult than one could imagine. The saving grace is that I get to sleep in my own bed each night, spend more time with my grandkids, do the things I want to do, except flying of course, get a decent LTD check each month, while still being able to hang out here, with all you genteel people. On the other hand, if the FAA hadn't required me to take an angiogram, from which about 2% of those undergoing said procedure die, I would, this day, be back in the left seat of the Mad Dog, jetting around the world and enjoying every minute of it, and making the majority of you one number less senior. So I guess the point of this last paragraph is to be careful what you wish for, because it might come true.

JJ

Jetjok

Are you talking about the "signing bonus" for ratification of the last contract? If so, what's your b!tch? Is it that captains got more than other crewmembers? Please explain yourself.

JJ