kronan

Everybody assumes that of course the crew was fatigued by their commute, how else to explain such a lapse of airmanship.

Yet, they didn't really miss a bunch of radio calls, no prob with numbers, reading the transcript don't really see any of the warning flags that were present in FedEx's TLH mishap.
All I've read so far is that her husband stated that she had gotten some Z's during the commute and in the morning prior to going to work and that she sounded fine

and, just read a link with a text message she sent morning of
"2/12/2009 1105hrs: I feel soooo good, I took a nice 6 hour nap on the comfy recliner!"
CBS News Mobile Copilot Spoke of Feeling Sick Before Crash

So who knows. I do know 6 hours of sleep is more than a whole bunch of regular line flyers get during their scheduled flight sequence--amazing that companies actually plan for reduced rest in the midst of a pairing

golfandfly

Kronan,

I agree that the outcome probably would have been the same if she would have slept in her own bed and drove to work. That said, the FAA is going to do something to alleviate the public's concerns. Is sleeping in a chair in the back of an A-300 the same as getting a real nights sleep? I used to commute, and I would commute on same day jumpseats as a rule. I have to admit, I wasn't as sharp as I might have been if I had gotten a good nights rest. But like many of us at this company, I have become adept at operating with little rest. It's just a fact of life when you are flying night freight. The FAA can come up with all the rest rules they want, but showing up for work at 2AM is more problematic than taking a same day jumpseat.

Whether we like it or not, I do see some changes in this area....

742drvr

I see 2 options....1 company must position the crewmember prior to rest starting. 2 require a crewmember to live with 1 hour of their base. That is the only way to fix the "rest while commuting problem". One will cost the company that doesn't already home base, the other will reduce the available pilot pool, because some folks can't or want move.

JMTC

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

I agree which is why I fear we are slowly emulating the European model in this aspect too... Most European pilots have to buy discounted tickets to jumpseat on their own airlines... Jumpseats are reserved for training and faa (caa, etc.) only.

Most pilots here have no idea how fortunate we are with our jumpseat privileges, I hope we'll fight to keep that option intact here in the US...

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

As soon as brown and purple merge I'll be bidding Mempho...
ANC is great by the way... at least in the summer...

My post was more about defending our jumpseat privileges than the actual domiciles...

Gunter

Door #3 is just being required to be in domicile 8-10 hours prior to show. Read- restricted from jumpseating or otherwise commuting. Not on the company's dime but on your own time. If you aren't leaving domicile, why would the company build in 10 hours before departure?

They don't have to make it illegal to live away from base to mandate the 10 hours of rest. Who is going to quit over having to move or spend 2-5 more days in domicile in this hiring environment?

How do airlines deal with the 24 hrs off before ultra long range ops right now?

FDXLAG

Sounds like they wont be able use the hub turn system under your door number 3. Again, if I can operate in from SAT to turn to SAT, I should be able to jumpseat in from SAT to turn to SAT. Don't see how they can get around it.

Gunter

I will be disappointed if the actions of one person, commuting all night before duty and flying sick, changes the rules in the draconian way described earlier in the thread.

Not surprised, just disappointed. After all, it is the FAA and/or Congress who will make this happen.

It doesn't matter if these rules would have prevented this accident. They just have to be perceived as contributory. People, who have been blissfully ignorant of our rules, are now aware and fearful. They now want change so they can feel safer. Public officials want to appear responsive. And the dems are in charge so anything is possible.

I hope cooler heads prevail but I'm having trouble seeing changes that increase costs to the airlines.

Gunter

It could be we already meet the possible new rest standard and will see no effect.

I wonder if they will address the 16 hr critical period duty limit. We already know that is like flying drunk.

golfandfly

Lag,

That sounds great if you fly to SAT the rest of your career. What happens if they discontinue the nonstop and fly SAT-IAH-DFW-MEM? Are you going to have rest to after being on that jumpseat? What about guys on the west coast? Anyway, it is hard to base the future on what we are doing now, especially at Fedex....