Originally Posted by Sideshow Bob

Oh yeah...

A high level (FAA required post, beginning with "D" hint, hint) manager type for example (callsign "torchy" due to frying two engines on a classic hint, hint) is required to be baby sat by another manager checkairpaperweight at all times.

Oh, but it's so historic...where have we heard that before?

Originally Posted by CactusCrew

I'm just curious ... would this job be worth having without a union ?
....
Would you be here without a union just to say you pull gear on UPS airplanes. For maybe $60,000-80,000 ... if they were feeling generous.
....
I don't think you would be here for what UPS would offer. At least I hope not ... because we are all worth more than that.

Originally Posted by SaltyDog

Alot of folks worked on your 'fast one' who are not naive or company hacks.
Is that what you are insinuating? Previous post I made explained that UPS made the decision to accept what was on the table. They very well could have furloughed instead.
Stated publicly on these forums that UPS would not furlough unless something catastrophic happened. Well, it did, the flow of volume dropped to 2004-05 levels. Guess what, that means we were overstaffed. The DC-8 was intentionally overstaffed since mid 2007 to run peak lift while minimizing charter requirements. Designed to be less expensive and more predictable planning. That worked for 2007-08, but the market landscape changed dramatically. The DC-8 was no longer necessary in any business capacity. The business fact remains we were overstaffed with all the extra 8 folks. Company saw an opportunity to get back items on our contract. IPA membership resoundingly said 'no'. Alternative: Furlough. You have little credibility if you do not see the legitimate business plan to furlough all DC-8 crewmember numbers. Especially after publicly stating how little flying you are doing on RSV. Had we pushed to call the 'bluff', well would have supported our crewmemebrs on furlough because that would have been the response to satisfy the Wallstreet analyst and maintain the stock price from sliding further. Personally, just took a downbid to F/O for QOL after being a displaced junior left seat blame taker. Besides, didn't want to add to the folks forced to commute to ANC to compete with someone who lived in SDF for the ride. <g>
After that paycut, talked the better half into giving
sick bank, taking a bid period off with VLOA and taking next summer off. Would have been 'cheaper' to pay some money towards a furlough fund, but am much happier to support families from furlough and the ensuing carnage to alot of families would have suffered.
No regrets, sorry you do. We plan on doing 'memory makers' with the kids on our extended 'vacations'.
Agree with the supervisor comments, those jobs belong in the IPA. However, our contract protects IPA training center positions. Certainly you have noticed the appeal to A300 crews to become instructors recently? UPS has to use IPA first. If IPA doesn't step up, UPS can fill as they choose. Same on all fleets. Also, any instructor has to have commercial pilot certificates. Not all supes did and are not teaching. We all need to work with fact and reality. Not emotion, just one opinion though.

Originally Posted by Airbum

cactus,

I can't imagine this job without a union... yikes!

Originally Posted by Airbum

cactus,

I can't imagine this job without a union... yikes!

Originally Posted by 767pilot

We have a couple in our fleet too, Instructors and check airmen who have lost their letters or authorization. One prominent fellow frooze up on a line check over the ocean when they told him that they were simulating an engine failure, what would he do. He sat there like a rock (mayb we should call him Stonewall). When prompted with a "what are you doing" he replied, "I'm praying". Where do we get such men?

Originally Posted by Buck92

AMEN (in a secular context), brother! It's gratifying to see someone actually gets it. It's unbelievable how many 'fiscally conservative' pilots fail to acknowledge that their exceptionally well-compensated lifestyles are maintained courtesy of unions, which puts them squarely in the camp of 'labor' vice 'management' in the us vs them scenario. If we deunionized (exactly what some advocate for the auto industry as the fix -- "hey, the market knows best -- don't interfere...") and let market forces dictate, Captains would be lucky to pull in $100K a year.

But if you're a true-blue, unfettered free-marketeer, that's exactly what you should be advocating. Let UPS/FDX decide what they want to pay people in light of these economic times and see if they can find a few thousand guys to come work for it -- I betcha they can, even at $80K per annum with FARs being the only work rules. So then your choice would be take the 60-70 percent pay cut or go find another job in this industry that will maybe pay more? Good luck.

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it."
-Jack Nicholson A Few Good Men

Originally Posted by 757upspilot

While not thrilled with the MOU I have no desire to see anyone lose the job or position, had this done to me a few times by management, and was absolutely oposed to contract concessions of any type it seemed the best option. We all have to remember that the company and management will and do control the layoff threat and I expect to see it again soon. The union can only attempt to mitigate the damage.