What's happened to the DC8 over 65 FEs?
07-11-2009, 01:22 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
...
Our union has pulled a fast one. Rather than everyone risk a small paycut by calling the furlough bluff, we have the most junior guys taking a huge paycut. It's an unfair situation. Either this job is worth having or it's not. Guys should not feel obligated to work for half pay. It was wrong for folks to pressure others into the "voluntary" measures. Our union condoned this if not orchestrated it.
Our union has pulled a fast one. Rather than everyone risk a small paycut by calling the furlough bluff, we have the most junior guys taking a huge paycut. It's an unfair situation. Either this job is worth having or it's not. Guys should not feel obligated to work for half pay. It was wrong for folks to pressure others into the "voluntary" measures. Our union condoned this if not orchestrated it.
Are you having regrets? Is that the gist of your post? I've signed up to give up a huge (to me) chunk of money in the next 2 1/2 years but I have no regrets because no one forced me to do it...
I don't understand why you blame the union for "pulling a fast one"? They did the best they could only knowing what the company chose to share with them... As you know, our company doesn't necessarily like to share lots of information with our union...
I for one am very proud of what the union did for our junior pilots...
- de727ups - great post and I agree 100%!
07-11-2009, 04:12 AM
#72
Permanent Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,682
"Rather than everyone risk a small paycut by calling the furlough bluff, we have the most junior guys taking a huge paycut. It's an unfair situation."
Uhhhh....with little due respect....
The whole MOU is voluntary. You don't wanna do it, don't do it. I'm a senior guy taking the next two months off. I see it as a QOL improvement and a major concession from UPS and contract 2006. They just allowed me to take a couple of months off without pay for personal reasons. That wasn't in contract 2006 and I quite think the IPA would have had to give something big away to secure such a great QOL deal back in 2006. I just got it for nothing thanks to the MOU...
There is always the 5%er's that will be unhappy with everything. Welcome to that club. Personally, I got no respect for it, but whatever floats yer boat. I'm a happy UPS pilot, a happy IPA volunteer, and a happy no bidder on 09-05.
See ya....
Uhhhh....with little due respect....
The whole MOU is voluntary. You don't wanna do it, don't do it. I'm a senior guy taking the next two months off. I see it as a QOL improvement and a major concession from UPS and contract 2006. They just allowed me to take a couple of months off without pay for personal reasons. That wasn't in contract 2006 and I quite think the IPA would have had to give something big away to secure such a great QOL deal back in 2006. I just got it for nothing thanks to the MOU...
There is always the 5%er's that will be unhappy with everything. Welcome to that club. Personally, I got no respect for it, but whatever floats yer boat. I'm a happy UPS pilot, a happy IPA volunteer, and a happy no bidder on 09-05.
See ya....
07-11-2009, 04:18 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: MD11 CPT
Posts: 1,077
Oh yeah...
A high level (FAA required post, beginning with "D" hint, hint) manager type for example (callsign "torchy" due to frying two engines on a classic hint, hint) is required to be baby sat by another manager checkairpaperweight at all times.
Oh, but it's so historic...where have we heard that before?
A high level (FAA required post, beginning with "D" hint, hint) manager type for example (callsign "torchy" due to frying two engines on a classic hint, hint) is required to be baby sat by another manager checkairpaperweight at all times.
Oh, but it's so historic...where have we heard that before?
07-11-2009, 04:53 AM
#74
Freightmama!
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Freightpuppy
oYou betcha I bid reserve and enjoy not "working". That's what makes living in God forsaken Ky worth it. It's not even close to the same thing as the UAW job banks.
Our union has pulled a fast one. Rather than everyone risk a small paycut by calling the furlough bluff, we have the most junior guys taking a huge paycut. It's an unfair situation. Either this job is worth having or it's not. Guys should not feel obligated to work for half pay. It was wrong for folks to pressure others into the "voluntary" measures. Our union condoned this if not orchestrated it.
oYou betcha I bid reserve and enjoy not "working". That's what makes living in God forsaken Ky worth it. It's not even close to the same thing as the UAW job banks.
Our union has pulled a fast one. Rather than everyone risk a small paycut by calling the furlough bluff, we have the most junior guys taking a huge paycut. It's an unfair situation. Either this job is worth having or it's not. Guys should not feel obligated to work for half pay. It was wrong for folks to pressure others into the "voluntary" measures. Our union condoned this if not orchestrated it.
That's great that you live in KY, your wife stays home and you sit reserve, fly 5 days a month and see your kids all the time. All of us don't have that luxury so personally I was more than happy to take RDG for 6 months out of the year for the next 2 years. If my schedule is as bad as I think it will be after the displacement is done, I'll take RDG for all of 2011. I wish the next 10 contracts would have that option in them so I don't miss out on half my kid's life. These are choices I made but I am also glad that we have a choice to work part time at least for a little while. That was always one of the drawbacks to this job for me.....no part time.
07-11-2009, 05:02 AM
#75
Freightmama!
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Oh yeah...
A high level (FAA required post, beginning with "D" hint, hint) manager type for example (callsign "torchy" due to frying two engines on a classic hint, hint) is required to be baby sat by another manager checkairpaperweight at all times.
Oh, but it's so historic...where have we heard that before?
A high level (FAA required post, beginning with "D" hint, hint) manager type for example (callsign "torchy" due to frying two engines on a classic hint, hint) is required to be baby sat by another manager checkairpaperweight at all times.
Oh, but it's so historic...where have we heard that before?
07-11-2009, 07:45 AM
#76
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Oh yeah...
A high level (FAA required post, beginning with "D" hint, hint) manager type for example (callsign "torchy" due to frying two engines on a classic hint, hint) is required to be baby sat by another manager checkairpaperweight at all times.
Oh, but it's so historic...where have we heard that before?
A high level (FAA required post, beginning with "D" hint, hint) manager type for example (callsign "torchy" due to frying two engines on a classic hint, hint) is required to be baby sat by another manager checkairpaperweight at all times.
Oh, but it's so historic...where have we heard that before?
That leaves two good engines !
07-11-2009, 07:53 AM
#77
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 88
[quote=CactusCrew;642652]And don't we have "Captain" managers that aren't allowed to operate without other manager supervision ... in essence to keep the dirty side down !
If it makes you feel any better, it takes 2 "Qualified" UPS management dispatchers to work one standard shift.
If it makes you feel any better, it takes 2 "Qualified" UPS management dispatchers to work one standard shift.
07-11-2009, 10:19 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Freightpuppy
oYou betcha I bid reserve and enjoy not "working". That's what makes living in God forsaken Ky worth it. It's not even close to the same thing as the UAW job banks.
Our union has pulled a fast one. Rather than everyone risk a small paycut by calling the furlough bluff, we have the most junior guys taking a huge paycut. It's an unfair situation. Either this job is worth having or it's not. Guys should not feel obligated to work for half pay. It was wrong for folks to pressure others into the "voluntary" measures. Our union condoned this if not orchestrated it.
oYou betcha I bid reserve and enjoy not "working". That's what makes living in God forsaken Ky worth it. It's not even close to the same thing as the UAW job banks.
Our union has pulled a fast one. Rather than everyone risk a small paycut by calling the furlough bluff, we have the most junior guys taking a huge paycut. It's an unfair situation. Either this job is worth having or it's not. Guys should not feel obligated to work for half pay. It was wrong for folks to pressure others into the "voluntary" measures. Our union condoned this if not orchestrated it.
Is that what you are insinuating? Previous post I made explained that UPS made the decision to accept what was on the table. They very well could have furloughed instead.
Stated publicly on these forums that UPS would not furlough unless something catastrophic happened. Well, it did, the flow of volume dropped to 2004-05 levels. Guess what, that means we were overstaffed. The DC-8 was intentionally overstaffed since mid 2007 to run peak lift while minimizing charter requirements. Designed to be less expensive and more predictable planning. That worked for 2007-08, but the market landscape changed dramatically. The DC-8 was no longer necessary in any business capacity. The business fact remains we were overstaffed with all the extra 8 folks. Company saw an opportunity to get back items on our contract. IPA membership resoundingly said 'no'. Alternative: Furlough. You have little credibility if you do not see the legitimate business plan to furlough all DC-8 crewmember numbers. Especially after publicly stating how little flying you are doing on RSV. Had we pushed to call the 'bluff', well would have supported our crewmemebrs on furlough because that would have been the response to satisfy the Wallstreet analyst and maintain the stock price from sliding further. Personally, just took a downbid to F/O for QOL after being a displaced junior left seat blame taker. Besides, didn't want to add to the folks forced to commute to ANC to compete with someone who lived in SDF for the ride. <g>
After that paycut, talked the better half into giving
sick bank, taking a bid period off with VLOA and taking next summer off. Would have been 'cheaper' to pay some money towards a furlough fund, but am much happier to support families from furlough and the ensuing carnage to alot of families would have suffered.
No regrets, sorry you do. We plan on doing 'memory makers' with the kids on our extended 'vacations'.
Agree with the supervisor comments, those jobs belong in the IPA. However, our contract protects IPA training center positions. Certainly you have noticed the appeal to A300 crews to become instructors recently? UPS has to use IPA first. If IPA doesn't step up, UPS can fill as they choose. Same on all fleets. Also, any instructor has to have commercial pilot certificates. Not all supes did and are not teaching. We all need to work with fact and reality. Not emotion, just one opinion though.
07-11-2009, 11:14 PM
#79
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Freightpuppy
oYou betcha I bid reserve and enjoy not "working". That's what makes living in God forsaken Ky worth it. It's not even close to the same thing as the UAW job banks.
Our union has pulled a fast one. Rather than everyone risk a small paycut by calling the furlough bluff, we have the most junior guys taking a huge paycut. It's an unfair situation. Either this job is worth having or it's not. Guys should not feel obligated to work for half pay. It was wrong for folks to pressure others into the "voluntary" measures. Our union condoned this if not orchestrated it.
oYou betcha I bid reserve and enjoy not "working". That's what makes living in God forsaken Ky worth it. It's not even close to the same thing as the UAW job banks.
Our union has pulled a fast one. Rather than everyone risk a small paycut by calling the furlough bluff, we have the most junior guys taking a huge paycut. It's an unfair situation. Either this job is worth having or it's not. Guys should not feel obligated to work for half pay. It was wrong for folks to pressure others into the "voluntary" measures. Our union condoned this if not orchestrated it.
I'm just curious ... would this job be worth having without a union ?
Because you sure seem to hate unions Lil J. Would you be here without a union just to say you pull gear on UPS airplanes. For maybe $60,000-80,000 ... if they were feeling generous.
I know I was lucky to get here. I know that it was other pilots that made this a place to want to be.
You should think about thanking the IPA for the job you have. I don't think you would be here for what UPS would offer. At least I hope not ... because we are all worth more than that.
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