FedEx MD-11 FO LCA's
06-30-2009, 04:49 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
Mostly I just sit on the sidelines, eat my popcorn and enjoy the games here, but every once in a while I throw the popcorn bag at the computer and start typing.
The things that seem to be working like a burr under your collective saddles are (1) F/Os 'checking' captains, (2) F/Os flying in the left seat and (3) the fantasy argument that if F/O Flexes fly occasionally in the left seat, this somehow causes you to get excessed. Let's get edumicated here:
(1) F/O PCAs are allowed under the contract. Under the AQP, the only 'check ride' is the LOE and that requires an APD which requires a line holding captain. Any other F/O PCA event is Train to Proficiency which means as long as you satisfactorily complete all the objectives in the allotted time, you pass. All of these events are MANEUVERS oriented. Seems a good F/O flex can train/validate a MANUEVER as well as any captain to me.
(2) The F/O flying in the left seat is type rated and perfectly legal to do so under the FARs. Under our contract, the F/O flex is REQUIRED to be checked out as a captain. If they fly in the left seat, they are required to fly with a SCA/LCA in the right seat, so it's a double bump. You must not like getting paid to sit at home.
(3) I won't even address this. If you think that the very occasional left seat trip for a F/O flex has anything to do with captains being excessed, I'll just encourage you to get back on your meds. Fast...
Just because someone is a captain doesn't mean they don't suck and just because someone is a F/O doesn't mean they do. You should focus on the quality of your instruction instead of the seniority of your instruction.
The things that seem to be working like a burr under your collective saddles are (1) F/Os 'checking' captains, (2) F/Os flying in the left seat and (3) the fantasy argument that if F/O Flexes fly occasionally in the left seat, this somehow causes you to get excessed. Let's get edumicated here:
(1) F/O PCAs are allowed under the contract. Under the AQP, the only 'check ride' is the LOE and that requires an APD which requires a line holding captain. Any other F/O PCA event is Train to Proficiency which means as long as you satisfactorily complete all the objectives in the allotted time, you pass. All of these events are MANEUVERS oriented. Seems a good F/O flex can train/validate a MANUEVER as well as any captain to me.
(2) The F/O flying in the left seat is type rated and perfectly legal to do so under the FARs. Under our contract, the F/O flex is REQUIRED to be checked out as a captain. If they fly in the left seat, they are required to fly with a SCA/LCA in the right seat, so it's a double bump. You must not like getting paid to sit at home.
(3) I won't even address this. If you think that the very occasional left seat trip for a F/O flex has anything to do with captains being excessed, I'll just encourage you to get back on your meds. Fast...
Just because someone is a captain doesn't mean they don't suck and just because someone is a F/O doesn't mean they do. You should focus on the quality of your instruction instead of the seniority of your instruction.
(2) Why is this whole thing necessary in the first place?
(3) If we are excessing guys out of the captain seat to other aircraft I think the occasional left seat trip does make a difference. Maybe not to you, but to those of us that are.
You are right about the fact that it does not matter if you are capt or fo you can suck as an instructor. I'll get back on my meds now, but thanks for straightening us all out.
Last edited by FR8Hauler; 06-30-2009 at 05:53 PM.
06-30-2009, 06:44 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
(1) Tell the last guy who busted a maneuver eval it was not a check ride.
(2) Why is this whole thing necessary in the first place?
(3) If we are excessing guys out of the captain seat to other aircraft I think the occasional left seat trip does make a difference. Maybe not to you, but to those of us that are.
You are right about the fact that it does not matter if you are capt or fo you can suck as an instructor. I'll get back on my meds now, but thanks for straightening us all out.
(2) Why is this whole thing necessary in the first place?
(3) If we are excessing guys out of the captain seat to other aircraft I think the occasional left seat trip does make a difference. Maybe not to you, but to those of us that are.
You are right about the fact that it does not matter if you are capt or fo you can suck as an instructor. I'll get back on my meds now, but thanks for straightening us all out.
This is necessary for some programs due to a lack of instructors.
So how does someone getting bumped cause an excess? I'd love to be able to follow your logic. If that's the case, then additional Flex instructors would cause MORE excesses because they occasionally PDO bump, too. If the captain is not willing to be bumped, it doesn't happen. So how again does this cause people to be excessed?
Don't worry, this too shall pass and soon enough you'll be able to puff your chest out, put on your hat with the scrambled eggs and say "That's right, you're the Captain" to yourself in the mirror... Yeeesh.
07-01-2009, 07:35 AM
#35
Part Time Employee
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Posts: 1,918
I have no problem with an F/O being a Flex, in fact good on them for applying. The problem is many Capts that would like the job are being kicked out of their seat and A/C due to all the excessing going on. That in itself makes it hard to apply for the job.
07-01-2009, 10:08 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 829
In that case (excess from Capt to F/O on same aircraft) they could still flex, they would be F/O flexes. They would also still have the experience of actually operating as a Capt on the line. Their excess has nothing to do with any F/O getting a left seat qual and/or PDO bumping line Capt's.
The fact remains that those who think F/O flexes getting left seat qual's are negatively effecting seniority/numbers on the line/excesses/etc are way off.
The fact remains that those who think F/O flexes getting left seat qual's are negatively effecting seniority/numbers on the line/excesses/etc are way off.
07-01-2009, 12:46 PM
#37
Slainge Var'
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner
Posts: 1,530
Didn't we have a former head of MD-11 training who was an F/O and got his boys to give him the secret handshake Captain checkout on the Maddog? Went around calling himself "Captain Buck" 2-3 years before he could hold the seat. Went to 757 training in Atlanta and oops, buffooned it. Sadly for this individual, since he never really had a formal MD-11 Capt checkout, he had to go through the same course as those minions he had such distain for. It all has a happy ending though because after 200% training, he was able to re-check out on the jet he was calling himself "Captain" on for many years. In theory, he could have been giving sim checks to line Captains. Is this FUBAR or what?
07-01-2009, 06:13 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Didn't we have a former head of MD-11 training who was an F/O and got his boys to give him the secret handshake Captain checkout on the Maddog? Went around calling himself "Captain Buck" 2-3 years before he could hold the seat. Went to 757 training in Atlanta and oops, buffooned it. Sadly for this individual, since he never really had a formal MD-11 Capt checkout, he had to go through the same course as those minions he had such distain for. It all has a happy ending though because after 200% training, he was able to re-check out on the jet he was calling himself "Captain" on for many years. In theory, he could have been giving sim checks to line Captains. Is this FUBAR or what?
07-01-2009, 06:47 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
You are very militant about this subject. Why are you such a great proponent of this ridiculous policy?
07-01-2009, 06:56 PM
#40
Slainge Var'
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner
Posts: 1,530
No kidding, carrots? Who would've thunk? Reminds me of the story of the gal who choked on the ribbed cucumber. Didn't even know you could eat those things. The point, of course, is that you shouldn't have dudes get a cursory check out in the left seat, then make some pretty important calls on some other dudes career. But alas, you knew that, didn't you?
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