News from FAA
06-28-2009, 06:11 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B767 Capt.
Posts: 616
I don't doubt that. And I guess it depends on the equipment you're on. Whether it's night hub turns or one long single departure trip per month.
If it's the one trip a month, are you flying EVERY day of that trip? If so, is you're longest "rest" period around 12 hours, with the shortest being 8? I know I've had 4 day trips and never got more than 6 hours of sleep on any of the "rest" periods, with 12-13 hour duty days. ANd YES, I know you may get a 18-24 hour "rest" period, but awake times are when your body would normally be in a sleep cycle.
Also, bear in mind that typical "regional" line is usually a 4 on 3 off, 16-20 work days a month. Often times the first day off of three is nothing but recovery. YES, I know the widebody/int'l types have to deal with body clock swap/circadian rhythm issues, but starting out on the west coast, ending up on the east coast with an RR overnight or vice versa isn't exactly either with 4 am wake ups 3 out of the 4 days isn't either.
If it's the one trip a month, are you flying EVERY day of that trip? If so, is you're longest "rest" period around 12 hours, with the shortest being 8? I know I've had 4 day trips and never got more than 6 hours of sleep on any of the "rest" periods, with 12-13 hour duty days. ANd YES, I know you may get a 18-24 hour "rest" period, but awake times are when your body would normally be in a sleep cycle.
Also, bear in mind that typical "regional" line is usually a 4 on 3 off, 16-20 work days a month. Often times the first day off of three is nothing but recovery. YES, I know the widebody/int'l types have to deal with body clock swap/circadian rhythm issues, but starting out on the west coast, ending up on the east coast with an RR overnight or vice versa isn't exactly either with 4 am wake ups 3 out of the 4 days isn't either.
06-28-2009, 07:03 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Nope, not at all. Do you want or need a refresher? 
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you probably skipped over this when responding to somebody else;
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you probably skipped over this when responding to somebody else;
Last edited by dojetdriver; 06-28-2009 at 08:47 PM.
06-29-2009, 06:32 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 156
I did my time in the regionals and now get to see the other end of the spectrum with the long haul stuff.
Of course this always comes down to the INTENT of certain regulations and the actual INTERPRETATION of the written regulation in a way that benefits the company. Here are the 2 interpretations that have always bothered me...
1. Reduced rest. To most logical people, one would assume that the trip pairing should schedule normal rest or greater and use reduced rest only if the last leg is late. But what the commuters do is schedule reduced rest on a pairing. So then when the last leg is late, every minute you are late you are to be that many minutes late the following morning. The problem of course is real life logistics like hotel vans only leaving every 30 mins, or scheduled rides set up for certain times. The end result is very long days with very little sleep.
2. Augmented crew/ RFO on multiple legs with block over 8. To me the purpose of the RFO is to provide some rest on long flights. When there are two legs, the benefit of the RFO is greatly diminished. No one is sleeping on the ground, everyone has work to do, and no one sleeps on the shorter leg because there is just not enough time. End result is that instead of having at least one guy fresh, every one is wiped out.
It would be nice if the new FAA head can use his pilot background to even help set some standard interpretation rules on existing rules!
Of course this always comes down to the INTENT of certain regulations and the actual INTERPRETATION of the written regulation in a way that benefits the company. Here are the 2 interpretations that have always bothered me...
1. Reduced rest. To most logical people, one would assume that the trip pairing should schedule normal rest or greater and use reduced rest only if the last leg is late. But what the commuters do is schedule reduced rest on a pairing. So then when the last leg is late, every minute you are late you are to be that many minutes late the following morning. The problem of course is real life logistics like hotel vans only leaving every 30 mins, or scheduled rides set up for certain times. The end result is very long days with very little sleep.
2. Augmented crew/ RFO on multiple legs with block over 8. To me the purpose of the RFO is to provide some rest on long flights. When there are two legs, the benefit of the RFO is greatly diminished. No one is sleeping on the ground, everyone has work to do, and no one sleeps on the shorter leg because there is just not enough time. End result is that instead of having at least one guy fresh, every one is wiped out.
It would be nice if the new FAA head can use his pilot background to even help set some standard interpretation rules on existing rules!
06-30-2009, 11:29 AM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Fetal ball
Posts: 60
121 Supplemental Rules
International operations under 121 S have no duty time limitations other than 24 continuous hours free of duty in a 7 day look back. Eight hours block for two pilot crews and twelve hours block for three person crews maximum flight time in a running 24 hour period. You get capped at 1200 flight hours for the year.
Under domestic operations you get 16 hours max duty time per 24 hour period, but there is no requirement that the eight hours away from the airplane have to be consecutive. Transit times to hotels or other activities, like eating and personal hygiene cut into the eight. I have had split 4s in FBO crew rooms, waiting on a transload. You are capped at 1000 flight hours per year. The other limits remain the same.
Companies will only do what benefits, their profits or potential advantage. Being legal is not always safe!
BTW, I have three of these operators in my past. Same behaviors allowed by the CFRs!
Under domestic operations you get 16 hours max duty time per 24 hour period, but there is no requirement that the eight hours away from the airplane have to be consecutive. Transit times to hotels or other activities, like eating and personal hygiene cut into the eight. I have had split 4s in FBO crew rooms, waiting on a transload. You are capped at 1000 flight hours per year. The other limits remain the same.
Companies will only do what benefits, their profits or potential advantage. Being legal is not always safe!
BTW, I have three of these operators in my past. Same behaviors allowed by the CFRs!
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