News from FAA
06-28-2009, 08:07 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Swivel Chair
Posts: 97
It shouldn't be legal to show up for work fatigued simply because it's your "right" to ...
This insanity has to stop ...
TransMach
06-28-2009, 08:08 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
If it's the one trip a month, are you flying EVERY day of that trip? If so, is you're longest "rest" period around 12 hours, with the shortest being 8? I know I've had 4 day trips and never got more than 6 hours of sleep on any of the "rest" periods, with 12-13 hour duty days. ANd YES, I know you may get a 18-24 hour "rest" period, but awake times are when your body would normally be in a sleep cycle.
Also, bear in mind that typical "regional" line is usually a 4 on 3 off, 16-20 work days a month. Often times the first day off of three is nothing but recovery. YES, I know the widebody/int'l types have to deal with body clock swap/circadian rhythm issues, but starting out on the west coast, ending up on the east coast with an RR overnight or vice versa isn't exactly either with 4 am wake ups 3 out of the 4 days isn't either.
06-28-2009, 08:41 AM
#23
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
I don't doubt that. And I guess it depends on the equipment you're on. Whether it's night hub turns or one long single departure trip per month.
If it's the one trip a month, are you flying EVERY day of that trip? If so, is you're longest "rest" period around 12 hours, with the shortest being 8? I know I've had 4 day trips and never got more than 6 hours of sleep on any of the "rest" periods, with 12-13 hour duty days. ANd YES, I know you may get a 18-24 hour "rest" period, but awake times are when your body would normally be in a sleep cycle.
Also, bear in mind that typical "regional" line is usually a 4 on 3 off, 16-20 work days a month. Often times the first day off of three is nothing but recovery. YES, I know the widebody/int'l types have to deal with body clock swap/circadian rhythm issues, but starting out on the west coast, ending up on the east coast with an RR overnight or vice versa isn't exactly either with 4 am wake ups 3 out of the 4 days isn't either.
If it's the one trip a month, are you flying EVERY day of that trip? If so, is you're longest "rest" period around 12 hours, with the shortest being 8? I know I've had 4 day trips and never got more than 6 hours of sleep on any of the "rest" periods, with 12-13 hour duty days. ANd YES, I know you may get a 18-24 hour "rest" period, but awake times are when your body would normally be in a sleep cycle.
Also, bear in mind that typical "regional" line is usually a 4 on 3 off, 16-20 work days a month. Often times the first day off of three is nothing but recovery. YES, I know the widebody/int'l types have to deal with body clock swap/circadian rhythm issues, but starting out on the west coast, ending up on the east coast with an RR overnight or vice versa isn't exactly either with 4 am wake ups 3 out of the 4 days isn't either.
After 10 years in the regionals, 7 years in the majors and now 2 years of long-haul cargo ... this time zone crossing long haul kicks my butt harder than the others.
But that's just me.
While I generally have more days off in a month, I have more days that I feel like crap from my schedule.
06-28-2009, 09:15 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Its truly a personal preference ... IMHO
After 10 years in the regionals, 7 years in the majors and now 2 years of long-haul cargo ... this time zone crossing long haul kicks my butt harder than the others.
But that's just me.
While I generally have more days off in a month, I have more days that I feel like crap from my schedule.
After 10 years in the regionals, 7 years in the majors and now 2 years of long-haul cargo ... this time zone crossing long haul kicks my butt harder than the others.
But that's just me.
While I generally have more days off in a month, I have more days that I feel like crap from my schedule.
I'm curious, at your time in the "regionals", was it the type of flying where you typically flew in and out of the same airport with little, if any time zone change, as well as relatively efficient schedules where you worked and didnt sit for half the day? Or was it like it is now in the "regionals" where you can be coast to coast more then once in a 4 day period? As well as have 12-16 hour duty days with half of it being mind numbing/fatiguing sit time wasted at the airport?
Also, in the example I posted above, 16-20 days a month means 4-5 a month of off days recovering, as well as the day 4 of 4 feeling like crap waiting for the trip to end.
In the long haul world, how much of your off time is spent feeling like crap? Also, on a long haul trip, how many of those days are you actually working?
Not trying get into a peeing contest, just trying to compare the two.
Last edited by dojetdriver; 06-28-2009 at 09:35 AM.
06-28-2009, 09:22 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Not to mention there were a couple of things I could do when I was 25 and not feel like crap that I could do at 45 and feel like crap. Twenty years make a big difference in how your body reacts to staying up all night.
06-28-2009, 11:01 AM
#27
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,860
Aint it the truth.
06-28-2009, 03:04 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
Just started flying under Kenya rules.
We fly only international, and here are the 2 pilot rules:
Max duty day 15 hours (no flight limitation, so it could be 15).
MINIMUM rest is 11 hours. PERIOD.
<10 hours duty, 12 hours rest
up to
<15 hours duty, 17 hours rest
If you are doing longer duty periods, with more than two pilots, the rest requirements go higher...I think the max is 23 hours required rest for XX hours of duty.
100 flight hours in a 28 day period.
Max 160 duty hours in a 28 day period.
In many ways, the Kenya rules are stricter than the US, starting with the 11 hours of minimum rest (oh, and there's no "supplemental" carriers here as in the US. US supplementals do a "duty break" so they can work over 16 hours of duty. Here in Kenya, if you are done with duty, your min rest is 11 hours. If you are not done with your duty, you are still on duty, with the 15 hour max (for crews of two)...no break in duty, unless it is at least 11 hours long, and then it's called regular rest).
cliff
NBO
Just started flying under Kenya rules.
We fly only international, and here are the 2 pilot rules:
Max duty day 15 hours (no flight limitation, so it could be 15).
MINIMUM rest is 11 hours. PERIOD.
<10 hours duty, 12 hours rest
up to
<15 hours duty, 17 hours rest
If you are doing longer duty periods, with more than two pilots, the rest requirements go higher...I think the max is 23 hours required rest for XX hours of duty.
100 flight hours in a 28 day period.
Max 160 duty hours in a 28 day period.
In many ways, the Kenya rules are stricter than the US, starting with the 11 hours of minimum rest (oh, and there's no "supplemental" carriers here as in the US. US supplementals do a "duty break" so they can work over 16 hours of duty. Here in Kenya, if you are done with duty, your min rest is 11 hours. If you are not done with your duty, you are still on duty, with the 15 hour max (for crews of two)...no break in duty, unless it is at least 11 hours long, and then it's called regular rest).
cliff
NBO
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