FAA Reauthorization - RLA amendment`
06-16-2009, 03:01 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 221
have read this thread and others that have to do with the RLA and the possibility that the non-FAA certified employees of FedEx Express may decide to go union, if FedEx Express is taken out of the RLA and I am really sad to see that the vast majority of FedEx pilots that post on this board have said so many negative comments about this issue.
What is wrong with you people??? You can be part of a union but the hourly drivers cannot?? Listen, I drive a tractor trailer from San Diego to LAX 5 days of the week. I haul Express packages, I do the same job as a UPS feeder driver, but because I am in the RLA the only way I could become part of a union is if under current law's the entire workforce nation wide were to do so. Unlike pilots we have no way to communicate with our coworkers across the nation and there are a lot more than 4700 drivers out there.
Most of you were in the military at one time, and so was I. I remember what "having your buddy's back" means. After reading this thread I suspect that some of you may have forgotten that.
GJ.
What is wrong with you people??? You can be part of a union but the hourly drivers cannot?? Listen, I drive a tractor trailer from San Diego to LAX 5 days of the week. I haul Express packages, I do the same job as a UPS feeder driver, but because I am in the RLA the only way I could become part of a union is if under current law's the entire workforce nation wide were to do so. Unlike pilots we have no way to communicate with our coworkers across the nation and there are a lot more than 4700 drivers out there.
Most of you were in the military at one time, and so was I. I remember what "having your buddy's back" means. After reading this thread I suspect that some of you may have forgotten that.
GJ.
We don't need some local yocal teamsters shutting down the show. There needs to be some national accountability so we don't turn into France.
06-16-2009, 04:23 AM
#32
Bourgeoisie
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 616
So I guess passenger baggage handlers don't work for an airline since they aren't "FAA certified". You don't have to be a pilot or mech to work for an airline. Look, Express is an airline. No if ands or buts. Nobody is denying them a union. They just have to do it nationwide per the RLA. I sure there are many similar jobs in dissimilar industries especially in the support fields, clerical, food service etc.
We don't need some local yocal teamsters shutting down the show. There needs to be some national accountability so we don't turn into France.
We don't need some local yocal teamsters shutting down the show. There needs to be some national accountability so we don't turn into France.
In today's environment the RLA is sham legislation designed to hogtie labor and favor management in an effort to protect profits, not any 'national interest'. The RLA should have gone the way of the Dodo Bird a long time ago.
06-16-2009, 05:00 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Yeah, we wouldn't want labor to have any actual strength. Lets just keep everyone working here nice and anemic.
In today's environment the RLA is sham legislation designed to hogtie labor and favor management in an effort to protect profits, not any 'national interest'. The RLA should have gone the way of the Dodo Bird a long time ago.
In today's environment the RLA is sham legislation designed to hogtie labor and favor management in an effort to protect profits, not any 'national interest'. The RLA should have gone the way of the Dodo Bird a long time ago.
Why don't we all join the UAW? That will solve everything.
06-16-2009, 05:57 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 777 F/O
Posts: 340
Has anyone talked to their local drivers to see what they really think about this move?
06-16-2009, 07:17 AM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 61
Treat people fairly
Even if the legislation were to pass......eventually, .........while there may be less obstacles to organization, it doesn't automatically assume success. If a company treats it's employees fairly, there is no inherent need.
Most companies that have unions.......deserve them.
My philosophy is never get in another man's rice bowl. I didn't like it when non-pilots,......who knew squat about aviation,.........who never walked a day in my shoes, attempted to thwart the effort here at FedEx.
The bottom line: This whole nonsense about the "Brown Bailout" is nothing more than a charade to hide the real intent, ............KEEPING UNION"S OUT at any cost. Same old story here at FedEx.
If a company were to allocate the time, money and effort used to thwart a Union drive, instead toward addressing employee concerns..........there would be no drive. It typically comes down to a flaw in the corporate culture, propagated at the highest levels.
My take is that we have bigger fish to fry and should focus instead on supporting our fellow pilots and building a better, stronger Union here at home.
Most companies that have unions.......deserve them.
My philosophy is never get in another man's rice bowl. I didn't like it when non-pilots,......who knew squat about aviation,.........who never walked a day in my shoes, attempted to thwart the effort here at FedEx.
The bottom line: This whole nonsense about the "Brown Bailout" is nothing more than a charade to hide the real intent, ............KEEPING UNION"S OUT at any cost. Same old story here at FedEx.
If a company were to allocate the time, money and effort used to thwart a Union drive, instead toward addressing employee concerns..........there would be no drive. It typically comes down to a flaw in the corporate culture, propagated at the highest levels.
My take is that we have bigger fish to fry and should focus instead on supporting our fellow pilots and building a better, stronger Union here at home.
06-16-2009, 09:06 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 276
Since I have a Masters in something or another from ERU I feel well qualified to answer your question. IMHO there are advantages and disadvantages to running a seperate ground operation. Fred obviously thinks the advantages out way the disadvantages. You take away the advantages (no teamsters) and that equation changes. If you no longer have the advantage of a seperate ground operation and you are only left with the disadvantages (duplication) what would you do?
I'm pro-labor, but my degree is in Business, so I'm sympathetic to both sides of the issue.
What would I do? That would depend upon which side I found myself. If I were Fred Smith, I'd pull out all the stops to get this thing stopped. I'd threaten to cancel airplane purchases. I'd exert as much remaining political influence as I could muster. I'd keep my employees divided into as many separate groups and disparate interests as possible. I'd tell them that labor unions (esp. Teamsters) were run by goons and thugs, and that bringing them in would imperil our ability as a company to compete, thus treatening their own jobs. I'd heap praise upon my "independent contractors" for their initiative in becoming "independent businessmen" who weren't limited in their career aspirations by working for "The Man"
Then I'd tell them to put on their purple shirts and ballcaps, get their a$$es back into their purple trucks, and start deliverin' them purple boxes to MY customers.
If I were a driver, on the other hand, my choices would be much simpler. I'd encourage my political representatives to pass this measure, then I'd vote union. Teamsters, most likely.
Last edited by Whistlin' Dan; 06-16-2009 at 09:07 AM. Reason: FedEx guy was at the door
06-16-2009, 09:24 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: MD11 CPT
Posts: 1,077
I don't have a Master's degree, nor do I think one is necessary to understand the fundamental questions being raised here. Namely, do FedEx drivers have a right to organize, and does the law as currently written serve primarily the aims of commerce, or to impede such organization by labor?
I'm pro-labor, but my degree is in Business, so I'm sympathetic to both sides of the issue.
What would I do? That would depend upon which side I found myself. If I were Fred Smith, I'd pull out all the stops to get this thing stopped. I'd threaten to cancel airplane purchases. I'd exert as much remaining political influence as I could muster. I'd keep my employees divided into as many separate groups and disparate interests as possible. I'd tell them that labor unions (esp. Teamsters) were run by goons and thugs, and that bringing them in would imperil our ability as a company to compete, thus treatening their own jobs. I'd heap praise upon my "independent contractors" for their initiative in becoming "independent businessmen" who weren't limited in their career aspirations by working for "The Man"
Then I'd tell them to put on their purple shirts and ballcaps, get their a$$es back into their purple trucks, and start deliverin' them purple boxes to MY customers.
If I were a driver, on the other hand, my choices would be much simpler. I'd encourage my political representatives to pass this measure, then I'd vote union. Teamsters, most likely.
I'm pro-labor, but my degree is in Business, so I'm sympathetic to both sides of the issue.
What would I do? That would depend upon which side I found myself. If I were Fred Smith, I'd pull out all the stops to get this thing stopped. I'd threaten to cancel airplane purchases. I'd exert as much remaining political influence as I could muster. I'd keep my employees divided into as many separate groups and disparate interests as possible. I'd tell them that labor unions (esp. Teamsters) were run by goons and thugs, and that bringing them in would imperil our ability as a company to compete, thus treatening their own jobs. I'd heap praise upon my "independent contractors" for their initiative in becoming "independent businessmen" who weren't limited in their career aspirations by working for "The Man"
Then I'd tell them to put on their purple shirts and ballcaps, get their a$$es back into their purple trucks, and start deliverin' them purple boxes to MY customers.
If I were a driver, on the other hand, my choices would be much simpler. I'd encourage my political representatives to pass this measure, then I'd vote union. Teamsters, most likely.
06-16-2009, 09:46 AM
#38
Slainge Var'
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner
Posts: 1,530
Everybody knows what it means. Just not sure anybody thinks you're his "buddy". Those of us here in 98 remember the "whatever it takes" campaign waged against us, and supported by our non-pilot co-workers system wide. Not all did, but a whole lot more than I suspected would. So, my newest "buddy", please elaborate on what exactly you want? 15 guys in San Diego start/join their own union? 28 in Seattle? 19 in Miami? 46 in Chicago? Is that it? OK, I'm on board. Anything else?
06-16-2009, 09:49 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Beyond the potential of increased labor costs, Fred has good distant vision, as well as a good memory. Not that it would likely happen at Fed Ex for a number of reasons, but imagine the drivers helping out the pilots and visa versa. Imagine what Fred would do under those circumstances...he might threaten to cancel the entire U.S. economy.
Smith did try to get the time zones changed. Seriously...This was one of his ideas. I think he petitioned that we only needed 3, in the lower 48. It would solve some FDX late pick-up time problems...So, of course it would benefit America.
06-16-2009, 09:49 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
I don't have a Master's degree, nor do I think one is necessary to understand the fundamental questions being raised here. Namely, do FedEx drivers have a right to organize, and does the law as currently written serve primarily the aims of commerce, or to impede such organization by labor?
I'm pro-labor, but my degree is in Business, so I'm sympathetic to both sides of the issue.
What would I do? That would depend upon which side I found myself. If I were Fred Smith, I'd pull out all the stops to get this thing stopped. I'd threaten to cancel airplane purchases. I'd exert as much remaining political influence as I could muster. I'd keep my employees divided into as many separate groups and disparate interests as possible. I'd tell them that labor unions (esp. Teamsters) were run by goons and thugs, and that bringing them in would imperil our ability as a company to compete, thus treatening their own jobs. I'd heap praise upon my "independent contractors" for their initiative in becoming "independent businessmen" who weren't limited in their career aspirations by working for "The Man"
Then I'd tell them to put on their purple shirts and ballcaps, get their a$$es back into their purple trucks, and start deliverin' them purple boxes to MY customers.
If I were a driver, on the other hand, my choices would be much simpler. I'd encourage my political representatives to pass this measure, then I'd vote union. Teamsters, most likely.
I'm pro-labor, but my degree is in Business, so I'm sympathetic to both sides of the issue.
What would I do? That would depend upon which side I found myself. If I were Fred Smith, I'd pull out all the stops to get this thing stopped. I'd threaten to cancel airplane purchases. I'd exert as much remaining political influence as I could muster. I'd keep my employees divided into as many separate groups and disparate interests as possible. I'd tell them that labor unions (esp. Teamsters) were run by goons and thugs, and that bringing them in would imperil our ability as a company to compete, thus treatening their own jobs. I'd heap praise upon my "independent contractors" for their initiative in becoming "independent businessmen" who weren't limited in their career aspirations by working for "The Man"
Then I'd tell them to put on their purple shirts and ballcaps, get their a$$es back into their purple trucks, and start deliverin' them purple boxes to MY customers.
If I were a driver, on the other hand, my choices would be much simpler. I'd encourage my political representatives to pass this measure, then I'd vote union. Teamsters, most likely.
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