FedEx- ANC purple nuggets
06-13-2009, 03:04 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Here is a PN question. Now, that the most senior PN are in 727 FO school. They will be checked out as NB FOs long before the PN junior to them even go to school for the panel. Some of junior guys won't go to SO school until 2010 sometime.
Now, do the senior PN flying the 727 as FOs get WB FO passover pay until the junior guys activate on the panel? I know one PN who is wondering and he has heard yes and no.
Now, do the senior PN flying the 727 as FOs get WB FO passover pay until the junior guys activate on the panel? I know one PN who is wondering and he has heard yes and no.
If they BID to relieve verses Being Involuntarily excessed (keeping ANC FO @ 100% as their Standing Bid choice #1).
A pilot who Bids to relieve vice being involuntarily excessed is scheduled to training first. In this situation they will not get passover pay.
If Every purple Nugget did not Bid to relieve then the junior most PN would go to training first since it is an involuntary excess downbid.
If that is not what is happening then "Houston we have a problem."
06-13-2009, 03:10 PM
#33
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: A300 f/o
Posts: 15
Once again the ire is misdirected. Are you begrudging the individuals who were asked this question, and answered "MD-11": "We have a slot for you in the MD-11 in Anchorage, or you can wait for a slot for the 727 in Memphis. What would you like to do?" I'm assuming you were never asked that question, but how would you have answered?
As for the process of selection to determine who would be asked that question, I share your sense of confusion. But once again the PNs did not determine that process.
And as for your pity? I couldn't care less. Just get your anger pointed in the right direction.
As for the process of selection to determine who would be asked that question, I share your sense of confusion. But once again the PNs did not determine that process.
And as for your pity? I couldn't care less. Just get your anger pointed in the right direction.
06-13-2009, 04:40 PM
#34
Part Time Employee
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Posts: 1,918
That depends on how they Bid during the excess posting.
If they BID to relieve verses Being Involuntarily excessed (keeping ANC FO @ 100% as their Standing Bid choice #1).
A pilot who Bids to relieve vice being involuntarily excessed is scheduled to training first. In this situation they will not get passover pay.
If Every purple Nugget did not Bid to relieve then the junior most PN would go to training first since it is an involuntary excess downbid.
If that is not what is happening then "Houston we have a problem."
If they BID to relieve verses Being Involuntarily excessed (keeping ANC FO @ 100% as their Standing Bid choice #1).
A pilot who Bids to relieve vice being involuntarily excessed is scheduled to training first. In this situation they will not get passover pay.
If Every purple Nugget did not Bid to relieve then the junior most PN would go to training first since it is an involuntary excess downbid.
If that is not what is happening then "Houston we have a problem."
There is a BIG problem!
The guys going to the panel (ie the most junior) are not scheduled to train until way into 2010. The ones that could hold 27 FO are starting training already. Talked to one who had called ALPA about it and their response was "different seat different training like when you upgrade, so no passover and no help." Contract states excess training will be done in inverse seniority order and doesn't mention anything about different seats and A/C. I think training should start with the most junior being sent to training first and if not - everyone maintains their current pay scale until all junior to you are trained.
My gut feeling is with all these "virtual training" letters, ALPA has thrown out the baby with the bath water, and we have given up a large chunk of change for those being excessed.
06-13-2009, 06:20 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
That was the best thing about having an A 380 pay rate. The "really important" ALPA members would have been stake holders in Passover Pay. Now that the top 50% are basically ineligible for passover it is just not that important.
06-13-2009, 07:02 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Who knows...waiting for a bid
Posts: 379
There is a BIG problem!
The guys going to the panel (ie the most junior) are not scheduled to train until way into 2010. The ones that could hold 27 FO are starting training already. Talked to one who had called ALPA about it and their response was "different seat different training like when you upgrade, so no passover and no help." Contract states excess training will be done in inverse seniority order and doesn't mention anything about different seats and A/C. I think training should start with the most junior being sent to training first and if not - everyone maintains their current pay scale until all junior to you are trained.
My gut feeling is with all these "virtual training" letters, ALPA has thrown out the baby with the bath water, and we have given up a large chunk of change for those being excessed.
The guys going to the panel (ie the most junior) are not scheduled to train until way into 2010. The ones that could hold 27 FO are starting training already. Talked to one who had called ALPA about it and their response was "different seat different training like when you upgrade, so no passover and no help." Contract states excess training will be done in inverse seniority order and doesn't mention anything about different seats and A/C. I think training should start with the most junior being sent to training first and if not - everyone maintains their current pay scale until all junior to you are trained.
My gut feeling is with all these "virtual training" letters, ALPA has thrown out the baby with the bath water, and we have given up a large chunk of change for those being excessed.
Part of what is going on seat to seat, has to do with the training department. The 75 is undermanned and can only take 6 per class. I would make a guess that due to all of the movement, they are having issues with flexes and possible sim time, to get everyone moved through.
A freindly call to your block rep wouldn't hurt to make sure it all jives. I have noticed in the Gucci building there are a lot of instructors in training fwiw.
HJB
06-13-2009, 07:49 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 1 on big twin
Posts: 324
I guess the most brilliant way to bid for the PN would have been... ANC 11 FO 100% and then MEM 27 SO... if they figured they would not keep the seat (the writing was on the wall on the practice bids) then the bid to SO would have them train later.
I don't think PO pay will apply in the current situation. But it does shed some light on bidding strategies.
I don't think PO pay will apply in the current situation. But it does shed some light on bidding strategies.
06-13-2009, 08:47 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 689
<<(the writing was on the wall on the practice bids)>>
This implies that a clear strategy could be derived by what the company has posted in it's bids and the resultant "practice" bids of the pilots. With the last 18 months of the company's bidding history and the well-established practice of bidding seats on practice-bids that no one intends to actually bid, what exactly was the writing on the wall?
This implies that a clear strategy could be derived by what the company has posted in it's bids and the resultant "practice" bids of the pilots. With the last 18 months of the company's bidding history and the well-established practice of bidding seats on practice-bids that no one intends to actually bid, what exactly was the writing on the wall?
06-14-2009, 09:32 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD11 FO, ANC
Posts: 1,098
This settlement agreement that you're talking about -
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT REGARDING THE TRAINING ORDER IN POSTINGS INVOLVING AN EXCESS
does apply to the PN's.
However, it does not rectify some of the injustices created by how the company is implementing the "awards" into the various training letters.
Take the senior PN who was excessed to the 727 FO (involuntarily) - vs. the junior PN who CHOSE 727 SO (over FO) thinking/hoping it would be a while before he was forced to go to training.
The senior PN is already in training now on the 727 FO "crew position" while the junior PN will still be flying the MD11 in ANC for at least another year from now before going to SO training.
THAT'S NOT RIGHT - NOR DOES IT HONOR SENIORITY IN ANY WAY.
Neither PN voluntarily left ANC MD11, but the more senior guy was forced to leave first (by more than a year) - so the junior guy benefits in a big way financially by staying on the widebody longer - and seniority has nothing to do with it.
This agreement still separates pilots into groups
"...shall be pooled together in the crew position to which they are going...."
and NOT resolving the issue of going to training in STRICT SENIORITY ORDER - period. (regardless of what seat a pilot is "going to")
So, in accordance with the agreement, seniority only matters WITHIN the group of pilots GOING TO the same crew position.
Seniority - period/overall - is discarded. (in accordance with this agreement)
That's the way I read it. Anyone else read something different?
The question is.....what did the union see as the benefit to the pilot group to have agreed to this? "baby with the bath water" seems like a pretty good description to me.....??
What am I missing?
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT REGARDING THE TRAINING ORDER IN POSTINGS INVOLVING AN EXCESS
does apply to the PN's.
However, it does not rectify some of the injustices created by how the company is implementing the "awards" into the various training letters.
Take the senior PN who was excessed to the 727 FO (involuntarily) - vs. the junior PN who CHOSE 727 SO (over FO) thinking/hoping it would be a while before he was forced to go to training.
The senior PN is already in training now on the 727 FO "crew position" while the junior PN will still be flying the MD11 in ANC for at least another year from now before going to SO training.
THAT'S NOT RIGHT - NOR DOES IT HONOR SENIORITY IN ANY WAY.
Neither PN voluntarily left ANC MD11, but the more senior guy was forced to leave first (by more than a year) - so the junior guy benefits in a big way financially by staying on the widebody longer - and seniority has nothing to do with it.
This agreement still separates pilots into groups
"...shall be pooled together in the crew position to which they are going...."
and NOT resolving the issue of going to training in STRICT SENIORITY ORDER - period. (regardless of what seat a pilot is "going to")
So, in accordance with the agreement, seniority only matters WITHIN the group of pilots GOING TO the same crew position.
Seniority - period/overall - is discarded. (in accordance with this agreement)
That's the way I read it. Anyone else read something different?
The question is.....what did the union see as the benefit to the pilot group to have agreed to this? "baby with the bath water" seems like a pretty good description to me.....??
What am I missing?
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