FliFast

The original posters comments may be a little bit jaded and borderline offensive. However, I can empathize after many of us TWA-er's furloughed from American lost our homes, our marriages, our health, education for our children, and some even took their lives.

I believe now is not the time to finger point, but to decide what can be done to avert this.

After walking a mile in the orignal poster's shoes, I can understand his point.

FF
ANC-based.

notadog

Grow up. There are a lot of people who are reaching deep into their pockets for you. Where do you get this sense of entitlement? There are NO guarantees in life.

FR8TFLYER

Salty-

Agreed, don't give up, run the race to the end. It just not look good. Just flew with a Capt who was just plain ****ed at BM for past issues and thus will not participate.

If this does not work, I see years and years of very disgruntled pilots. I am only human and the frustration is already boiling inside me.

Still running......

aseweepay

Hey notadog,

Take a deep breath and put yourself in the shoes of those of us in the
bottom 300 (not sure where you are on the list so maybe you are in the bottom also). I don't think it's a sense of entitlement at all, I think it's what a lot of us are feeling with only 4 days left for this MOU to be successful, a sense of disgust, anger, frustration....you name it, we are probably all feeling it right now. I am tired of flying with guys that are so flippant about the whole situation and could care less what happens to us. "UPS won't furlough, they never have" "really ??? why gamble on that with the careers/families of 300 people ? Why not help assure that they won't" "well, when they furlough then we will show them". At that point it's a little late for the people on the street and those that are downgraded etc. Most of the people that I have flown with who are refusing the contribute have never been furloughed so they really don't understand the hardships involved nor could they care. On the other side, I have also flown with people that are giving a tremendous amount, unfortunately I don't think it will be enough to offset the selfishness of the others.
There are no guarantees in life, that is true, and we should all know what we are getting into when we try for a career in the airlines, but unlike my previous furlough (which I am still recovering from as I get ready to get knocked down yet again) we at UPS as part of IPA have a chance to not let this happen. Would UPS go ahead and furlough even if the MOU passes ? Maybe so, who knows, but it seems like a lot of guys are willing to gamble up to 300 of their fellow employees careers and families on it. While the world started to melt around us, UPS continued to make a healthy profit and tell us repeatedly that furlough was not even an option, I was flying with Captains who have friends in high places (apparently not high enough) that were telling them to tell me that furlough was not even an option. If we knew about the DC-8s being parked at the same time we were told about possible furloughes it would have changed a lot of choices people have made in the last few months, like moving to ANC, which UPS paid for while apparently also thinking of furloughing those very same people
I am rambling here, so I will stop, but I think that my main point is that a lot of us (all through the list) are disgusted and frustrated, the EB went out on a limb for us all and came up with a (not perfect but better than the alternative) plan for us to help eachother and so far we are letting them down and more importantly we are letting ourselves down. From the day we got here we were told, "this is the last job you will ever interview for" and "100% IPA" but apparently those are hollow promises and slogans with no meaning behind them. All it would take is for everyone to do one RDG and it's a done deal, unbelievable. There has to be a plan "B", maybe since early outs would provide the most savings in the MOU, UPS may look at this and sweeten the pot a little to try and entice some guys to retire, maybe they will still allow the leaves and or the military leaves to help lessen the furlough....Who knows. I really expected more from this group, and I know it's not over, but so far it seems pretty bleak.

highsky

Great one!

Burt Reynolds...That guy keeps getting better and better with age. Of course though, he was a classic in Smokey and the Bandit. That was Jackie Gleason at his finest too.

CactusCrew

I certainly hope the original poster was expressing disgust with the team IPA that are completely apathetic and signed up for nothing. Otherwise he makes no sense and is a complete tool ...

My thanks to all who contributed in some form or another. And my thanks to the IPA EB and team that brought this MOU to the table.

If I was to find a flaw in their actions, it would be this ...

For weeks the emphasis was on voluntary furlough prevention measures.

It would have been better to emphasize this as a program that required 100% participation for success. Because IMHO, that's what it would need to even come close.

And I even doubt if that would have placed us over the top ...



50% IPA

FR8TFLYER

Front Seat-

Don't lower yourself to those standards, do what is right if there is an OT/JA ban. My landings suck too, but I can cook!

300ER Hauler

I myself am not in the 300, but to blame the IPA/EB leadership for your demise is a bit short sighted. UPS hired each of us to fly UPS planes and routes. UPS has idled airplanes and cancelled/rerouted flights due to a major contraction in the economy. Look at Andy's brief, it is quite sobering. Companies across the landscape have laid off 5-20% of their workforce in light of economic hardships.
The irony in all the rhetoric over that past months is that the 300 from the start said "no concessions, no give backs ... we would rather come back to the same job than take a hit now." That was echoed over and over again. Now that the union has held the line and is taking no hit to the contract, guys are livid. Granted, not everyone has put money on the table to help, that is very unfortunate for all of us and will impact everyone should this not pass, especially the 300. Sadly, this could destroy for a long time what unity the IPA does possess. We need to try to shelve the anger and continue to work together beyond the 11th hour. We don't know what is around the next turn concerning this saga. I hear the anger and frustration, but throwing grenades among ourselves ... only hurts ourselves.
They have announced an extension to sign-ups through tuesday. Let's hope for the best.

J Dawg

Guys aren't livid because there are no contract concessions, but because of the (so far) poor participation level, and the mounting stories/excuses from those who will not participate as they try to rationalize their decision - when most of them will benefit from this as well!

highsky

That's right.