bottom 300 at UPS
05-27-2009, 02:42 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: F/O
Posts: 333
If it's 100% Unity @ IPA, then it's now or never. If we can't help out 300 of our own, we've lost our way.
If we don't meet the goal next week and furloughs begin in September, I'm pitting the blame on ourselves. UPS has no choice to furlough with the significant loss of volume we've had, people.
If we don't meet the goal next week and furloughs begin in September, I'm pitting the blame on ourselves. UPS has no choice to furlough with the significant loss of volume we've had, people.
05-27-2009, 03:20 AM
#12
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: DC8 FE
Posts: 7
Many of the bottom 300 have listed on the B&G what they are signing up for and it is far from being maxed out. Without the numbers for '09 the MOU is dead. Focus on '09
05-27-2009, 03:59 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 747-400 FO
Posts: 123
[quote=757upspilot;617537]I am going to disagree. UPS made just short of 1 billion dollars last quarter, they do not have to layoff.
quote]
Well, OK, they don't HAVE to layoff, that's true. If this were a jobs program, they could afford to keep us around for quite a while. Unfortunately, a whole bunch of our work (11% of posted block hours) has gone away. Already gone -- not going, not might go -- gone.
As a result, they WILL recover that cost - either as a furlough or through the MOU - pick one. See Andy Murphy's presentation on the IPA web board to check out hard numbers.
Folks, this is not a chess move, it's going to happen. The deal is not going to sweeten, only get more sour.
quote]
Well, OK, they don't HAVE to layoff, that's true. If this were a jobs program, they could afford to keep us around for quite a while. Unfortunately, a whole bunch of our work (11% of posted block hours) has gone away. Already gone -- not going, not might go -- gone.
As a result, they WILL recover that cost - either as a furlough or through the MOU - pick one. See Andy Murphy's presentation on the IPA web board to check out hard numbers.
Folks, this is not a chess move, it's going to happen. The deal is not going to sweeten, only get more sour.
05-27-2009, 04:42 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
For all of the IPAers upset about the plan, the EB, UPS, people who picked up open time 5 years ago when they thought they might upgrade, or the bottom 300 for not doing what you think they should: Would it have been better for UPS to have just announced a layoff of 300 back in March?
05-27-2009, 04:48 AM
#15
Permanent Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,682
I am not upset about the plan. I hope it works. I think the IPA is going beyond what any union has tried before. I also think that if you want to blame someone/anyone that you need to look directly at UPS and their attitude toward labor and not make a bunch of noise about one segment or another of the pilot group that someone thinks doesn't care or isn't participating to a satisfactory level
You can be angry at UPS, but the fact is that right now, only the IPA members can stop the furlough.
Unless of course something changes.
05-27-2009, 05:15 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 244
I am going to disagree. UPS made just short of 1 billion dollars last quarter, they do not have to layoff.
They came to the union with a lose/lose proposition for the IPA take a pay cut or we will layoff, they didn't say they where going to layoff and then offer a pay cut instead, they started with the pay cut. The company told ANC crews at the beginning of the year no layoff, Barr and Lekhites, so they have had in mind the paycut. They also knew that it would require a vote and that it would probably fail.
The IPA came up with the layoff mitigation plan and ran a survey of a list of options, they got ATL to agree to let us try, local management wanted to dump people on the street and inflict as much pain as possible via layoffs, loss of seat, domicile changes and all the crap that may occur.
This is UPS at the finest, they set the dollar amount we have to hit, they determine if we have done it, etc.
They came to the union with a lose/lose proposition for the IPA take a pay cut or we will layoff, they didn't say they where going to layoff and then offer a pay cut instead, they started with the pay cut. The company told ANC crews at the beginning of the year no layoff, Barr and Lekhites, so they have had in mind the paycut. They also knew that it would require a vote and that it would probably fail.
The IPA came up with the layoff mitigation plan and ran a survey of a list of options, they got ATL to agree to let us try, local management wanted to dump people on the street and inflict as much pain as possible via layoffs, loss of seat, domicile changes and all the crap that may occur.
This is UPS at the finest, they set the dollar amount we have to hit, they determine if we have done it, etc.
cp
05-27-2009, 07:39 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 747-400 FO
Posts: 123
Hate to break it to you, but a large number of the "new" guys, including the bottom 300, look upon the IPA B&G as a waste of time - why listen to the same 30 guys ***** about how much their $300K/ year job s--ks?Personally, I haven't bothered to look there in over a year and a half.
05-27-2009, 07:55 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: DC-8 756/767
Posts: 1,144
When are people going to learn that no matter how much they made or make, they will run the airline with what they see as proper staffing. They could have made 2 billion last quarter and we would still be right here. The airline is a small(and getting smaller) part or the overall company. We are overstaffed, period. UPS has put a price on the heads of 300 or our brothers. Unfortunately, it looks as though that price is too much for us to contribute.
05-27-2009, 08:56 AM
#19
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
So even though I answered no to the survey, I just signed up for three periods of RDG. I still don't think this thing is going to work. Initially 850 folks said that they would help out with this program and now we have 850 that have committed and we are at the 44% of goal achieved??? I thank all the time the EB put into this and all those that volunteered but, there is no way we are going to make it!
Pointing to the bottom 300 and saying they are to blame is wrong, saying that the bottom 300 should sign-up for RDG for the rest of the year is wrong! My gut impression is that the company and the IPA came up with a plan that would cover both their asses if it were to fail and lay the blame on the membership which seems like what is happening now!
Just my .02!
Pointing to the bottom 300 and saying they are to blame is wrong, saying that the bottom 300 should sign-up for RDG for the rest of the year is wrong! My gut impression is that the company and the IPA came up with a plan that would cover both their asses if it were to fail and lay the blame on the membership which seems like what is happening now!
Just my .02!
05-27-2009, 09:01 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 120
When are people going to learn that no matter how much they made or make, they will run the airline with what they see as proper staffing. They could have made 2 billion last quarter and we would still be right here. The airline is a small(and getting smaller) part or the overall company. We are overstaffed, period. UPS has put a price on the heads of 300 or our brothers. Unfortunately, it looks as though that price is too much for us to contribute.
The company also now knows that at least 35% of the pilots at UPS will take a pay cut.
They will remember that in 2012. I hope nobody complains when they ask for concessions the next time around.
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