Thinking about Paris? Make sure you read this
05-23-2009, 06:49 PM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 97
Thinking about Paris? Make sure you read this
Got this from a buddy. Informative read for those who have not done their
homework (unfortunately that seems to be the majority of the folks I talk to).
removed.....
homework (unfortunately that seems to be the majority of the folks I talk to).
removed.....
Last edited by Good Beer; 05-24-2009 at 06:29 PM.
05-23-2009, 08:05 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777 Capt
Posts: 403
Excellent series of posts Good Beer! It's almost criminal that RC and our MEC failed in their responsibility to get this kind of information BEFORE they negotiated the FDA. Absolutely unbelievable that our FDA is so below the standard expat package.
05-23-2009, 11:13 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
I can't believe people are bidding it. I did the math and there is no way I can afford it with a small family. Beer's schooling costs are about half the amount that I found. The English speaking private schools I found were around $18,000 Euros/year. If you send your kid to the public schools they are going to be learning French by immersion. Great post. Maybe "O" should paste this to his next "O" gram since we have heard nothing but crickets about this from the company and the union.
05-24-2009, 05:10 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Junior
Posts: 280
"As a demonstration, consider an FO that has counted the cost of moving to Paris and has successfully set his family up in a 1100 sq ft apartment in the 8th for which he pays 3,500€/mo. Let’s say he earns $150,000 of which $80,000 is available after taxes and retirement considerations. He has two kids in school for which he pays 3600€/yr each in tuition, a car that costs 300€/mo, and living expenses of 2300€/mo. He receives $2700/mo.
housing allowance. Let’s examine what happens as the dollar weakens."
So doing the math roughly at the Euro running $1.4, the income after tax would be about 5000 Euros/mo plus about 1900 Euros for the allowance. The expenses shown would be around 6700 Euros. That's cutting it close -- too close. When the Euros go to 1.6 you're screwed.
housing allowance. Let’s examine what happens as the dollar weakens."
So doing the math roughly at the Euro running $1.4, the income after tax would be about 5000 Euros/mo plus about 1900 Euros for the allowance. The expenses shown would be around 6700 Euros. That's cutting it close -- too close. When the Euros go to 1.6 you're screwed.
Last edited by Fr8doggie; 05-24-2009 at 05:10 AM. Reason: clarification
05-24-2009, 05:34 AM
#8
Slainge Var'
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner
Posts: 1,530
Before someone prints this and shows it to his wife, could you establish your buddy's credibility? Does he currently live in France? Used to? Researched it on the internet? I'm not disputing a single thing he say's, however, his source of expertise would be good to know.
05-24-2009, 06:34 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: ANC-Based MD-11 FO
Posts: 328
Don't bid an FDA thinking the Union will successfully negotiate an upgraded contract for you later. That was suggested when SFS stood up but it never happened. Besides, I don't think the LOA needs to be upgraded and I hope our Union does NOT waste negotiating capital on this issue. Why? Every slot was filled in the practice round which means the LOA must be good enough just as it is.
05-24-2009, 07:35 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
Recommendations
The first and most basic recommendation would be not to re-invent the wheel. There are a lot of factors involved. Standard relocation packages are just that – they are a PACKAGE.
Like a three-legged stool, all the elements are inter-related and required, as we saw with the VAT and tax equalization.
Establish a Cost of Living Adjustment. Avoid the temptation to do this yourselves, there are standard methods for figuring this out. It’s the fair and equitable approach and the only way to provide our pilots with a stable salary.
Transferring currency exchange risk from the company onto the pilot by paying us salaries in dollars all while we incur living expenses in
Euros is wrong – we’re pilots not currency traders. Finally, equalize the Value Added Tax within a COLA computation.
Once a COLA is in place, the tax equalization program that currently exists is complete and valid.
Establish a Standard Housing Allowance. Use standard methodology which will render this allowance location specific.
Establish a mechanism for bringing an apartment up to US standards. By this I mean installing items that are normally found in US apartments (like kitchens cabinets and appliances, light fixtures, closets, painting, and replace carpet), but are not necessarily found in all French apartments. This would also include required work to make the apartment clean and livable. A way to deal with this is to allow reimbursements of expenses incurred to bring
apartments up to the standard we normally expect in the US.
Offer a realistic shipping allowance. It might be combined with a furnishing allowance –more shipment less furnishing allowance.
Include FDA-assigned spouses in Language Education Allowances. At least allow couples to participate together. Re-visit how schools are accredited or compile a list of acceptable schools in Paris. The accreditation process may serve us well in the US, make sure it’s not forcing us into top-dollar schools in France.
Pay or strongly encourage a house hunting trip for the pilot and spouse to find
suitable housing. I think 5 days should be an absolute minimum with ability to approve more days by the RCP. The same relocation agency should provide post move-in support for at least a month, both over the phone and in person.With a COLA in place it would be normal to require families to pay their own housing deposits, handle getting to and from work, and buying their own cars. In other words, similar expenses that are normally handled by an employee working in the US.
Avoid actually changing money. Clearly FedEx generates revenue in Euros in Europe. Establish a Flight Ops cost center in EMEA and pay our European-based pilots and other flight ops employees a salary in Euros. Pay 40-50% of a pilots salary here in Euros and the rest in the US. This will NOT negate the requirement for a COLA adjustment or a housing allowance, but it will reduce currency conversion expenses that as things stand now are all
paid by the pilot.
Study the merits of an EMEA Flight Ops Cost Center. An EMEA cost center may offer economies of scale. Whether this option has merit or not requires in depth study – there are many aspects to be considered. Never the less, this is how General Electric pays their US employees assigned to France.
Having a portion of European Flight Ops salaries paid in euros would mean that our employees would have a French salary, opening up the possibility using the French health care system instead of HTH. It also means having work visas for our pilots and would automatically require a French work contract. The work contract is not a show stopper – US lawyers seem to cringe at this idea, but they need to work with their French counterparts to
understand how VERY benign this concept is. Within certain limits it can be whatever we make it.
The work visa might be another story.
The merits of an EMEA cost center for Flight Ops should be explored. The fact that other large, US companies opted for this solution should not be discounted.
The first and most basic recommendation would be not to re-invent the wheel. There are a lot of factors involved. Standard relocation packages are just that – they are a PACKAGE.
Like a three-legged stool, all the elements are inter-related and required, as we saw with the VAT and tax equalization.
Establish a Cost of Living Adjustment. Avoid the temptation to do this yourselves, there are standard methods for figuring this out. It’s the fair and equitable approach and the only way to provide our pilots with a stable salary.
Transferring currency exchange risk from the company onto the pilot by paying us salaries in dollars all while we incur living expenses in
Euros is wrong – we’re pilots not currency traders. Finally, equalize the Value Added Tax within a COLA computation.
Once a COLA is in place, the tax equalization program that currently exists is complete and valid.
Establish a Standard Housing Allowance. Use standard methodology which will render this allowance location specific.
Establish a mechanism for bringing an apartment up to US standards. By this I mean installing items that are normally found in US apartments (like kitchens cabinets and appliances, light fixtures, closets, painting, and replace carpet), but are not necessarily found in all French apartments. This would also include required work to make the apartment clean and livable. A way to deal with this is to allow reimbursements of expenses incurred to bring
apartments up to the standard we normally expect in the US.
Offer a realistic shipping allowance. It might be combined with a furnishing allowance –more shipment less furnishing allowance.
Include FDA-assigned spouses in Language Education Allowances. At least allow couples to participate together. Re-visit how schools are accredited or compile a list of acceptable schools in Paris. The accreditation process may serve us well in the US, make sure it’s not forcing us into top-dollar schools in France.
Pay or strongly encourage a house hunting trip for the pilot and spouse to find
suitable housing. I think 5 days should be an absolute minimum with ability to approve more days by the RCP. The same relocation agency should provide post move-in support for at least a month, both over the phone and in person.With a COLA in place it would be normal to require families to pay their own housing deposits, handle getting to and from work, and buying their own cars. In other words, similar expenses that are normally handled by an employee working in the US.
Avoid actually changing money. Clearly FedEx generates revenue in Euros in Europe. Establish a Flight Ops cost center in EMEA and pay our European-based pilots and other flight ops employees a salary in Euros. Pay 40-50% of a pilots salary here in Euros and the rest in the US. This will NOT negate the requirement for a COLA adjustment or a housing allowance, but it will reduce currency conversion expenses that as things stand now are all
paid by the pilot.
Study the merits of an EMEA Flight Ops Cost Center. An EMEA cost center may offer economies of scale. Whether this option has merit or not requires in depth study – there are many aspects to be considered. Never the less, this is how General Electric pays their US employees assigned to France.
Having a portion of European Flight Ops salaries paid in euros would mean that our employees would have a French salary, opening up the possibility using the French health care system instead of HTH. It also means having work visas for our pilots and would automatically require a French work contract. The work contract is not a show stopper – US lawyers seem to cringe at this idea, but they need to work with their French counterparts to
understand how VERY benign this concept is. Within certain limits it can be whatever we make it.
The work visa might be another story.
The merits of an EMEA cost center for Flight Ops should be explored. The fact that other large, US companies opted for this solution should not be discounted.
You should include a company paid move to any city in the United States in the event of a RIF. Right now we have people who may be stuck in ANC if we layoff with no way out due to costs.
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