UPS: MOU numbers
05-24-2009, 07:36 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
This is my first post. I've been with UPS for nearly 12 years, and when I was hired I was told by the company that I'd probably have the opportunity to upgrade to captain at approximately 6-7 years.
Now...many of my union brothers/sisters who greedily took money out of my pocket by doing work that pilots that should have been hired but weren't, are desperately wanting me to "sacrifice" so that they can keep their jobs today.
My heart tells me to be a part of this MOU and sacrifice for my union brothers/sisters, but another part of me is angry that they didn't sacrifice for me for the last 12 years. Too many of them were maximizing their earnings potential with the company which enabled the company to not hire the number of pilots they really needed.
So my dilemma now is...should I participate?
I'm leaning to not participating in this MOU because I really don't think UPS will furlough if the MOU fails. The expense to replace ANC pilots, with the added expense of hiring once this economy begins growing again (many experts already believe we may be bottoming out, and the economy to begin growing again eary 2010) will prove the furlough to be a losing proposition financially for the company. I think they know this. They simply want to open up our current contract to reduce the benefits/salaries of our contract today.
Although I haven't made my final decision, I'm probably NOT going to participate for two reasons: I don't believe the company is really going to follow through on their furlough threat (they will attempt to save face by saying the number of pilots that were forced into retirement from the DC8 were sufficient savings needed to prevent a more dire furlough), and the second reason is that I'm disgusted that my fellow union brothers/sisters were so greedy during the previous 12 years here in their pick up of opentime, JAs, making up sick bank and maximizing line hours that I don't feel a compelling reason to "help them" when they were the ones being so greedy in the past.
My two cents.
Now...many of my union brothers/sisters who greedily took money out of my pocket by doing work that pilots that should have been hired but weren't, are desperately wanting me to "sacrifice" so that they can keep their jobs today.
My heart tells me to be a part of this MOU and sacrifice for my union brothers/sisters, but another part of me is angry that they didn't sacrifice for me for the last 12 years. Too many of them were maximizing their earnings potential with the company which enabled the company to not hire the number of pilots they really needed.
So my dilemma now is...should I participate?
I'm leaning to not participating in this MOU because I really don't think UPS will furlough if the MOU fails. The expense to replace ANC pilots, with the added expense of hiring once this economy begins growing again (many experts already believe we may be bottoming out, and the economy to begin growing again eary 2010) will prove the furlough to be a losing proposition financially for the company. I think they know this. They simply want to open up our current contract to reduce the benefits/salaries of our contract today.
Although I haven't made my final decision, I'm probably NOT going to participate for two reasons: I don't believe the company is really going to follow through on their furlough threat (they will attempt to save face by saying the number of pilots that were forced into retirement from the DC8 were sufficient savings needed to prevent a more dire furlough), and the second reason is that I'm disgusted that my fellow union brothers/sisters were so greedy during the previous 12 years here in their pick up of opentime, JAs, making up sick bank and maximizing line hours that I don't feel a compelling reason to "help them" when they were the ones being so greedy in the past.
My two cents.
Since you have been here 12 years, you may have been the newhire in the schoolhouse in 1997 during the Teamsters strike. If so, recall that we, the IPA honored the picket line. The IPA agreed in our contract (before you and I were at UPS) to honor any legal strike on the UPS property. We had no say in 1997 when the strike happened. Everyone on probation in the schoolhouse to the most senior crewmember honored the strike. It was a 15 day pay loss. It wasn't for any IPA folks, we gave a 15 day pay loss and donated it to the Teamsters. I was an S/O at the time, it was pretty unnerving, not like I was making the big coin yet. It was a open ended committment, we had no idea when UPS/Teamsters strike would end. None.
Yet, I had a real pride in being part of the IPA supporting the Teamsters. We had kept our bargain. If you were on probation at the time or in training, you can certainly attest to the feelings of despair and uncertainty when the strike was announced and all were told to not come to work/groundschool. Would we have a job? we were on probation! Well, the EB said all come back or no one comes back. UPS believed the IPA, and with 100% honoring the line, all were told they would be back. No hostages. Right now, our 300 or more ARE hostages. It is business, but they are hostages.
I am asking you to reconsider. We have given 2 weeks pay to the Teamsters in 1997. Every one of us. I see giving some pay now to keep OUR OWN on the property more important that even the 1997 Teamsters strike. These are our own. It is our union. We will be linked with each other for our remaining careers. I want them to have a less stressed marriage, kids not panicked by Mom or Dad losing their job. I know that you can easily understand that real fear. We have been extraordinarily generous to our fallen IPA crews families after the 2006 contract. I bet you gave. Why? Cause of the comments you have posted suggest a responsible, generous attitude.
Don't let the negatives dissuade your generosity. UPS will furlough at this point if we fail, but for the first time since 1997 teamsters, we can all back UPS down and take control again. Please give it some more thought with the family.
Thanks
SD
05-24-2009, 08:28 PM
#82
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 59
05-24-2009, 10:02 PM
#83
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 60
Excuses
All of the braggadocious excuses from the people not participating is a real eye opener. Who are you trying to convince other than yourself?
If you do not want to or if you can not participate, then do not volunteer.
Manifestos about how you were wronged by (fill in the blank) do not add to the discussion.
If you do not want to or if you can not participate, then do not volunteer.
Manifestos about how you were wronged by (fill in the blank) do not add to the discussion.
05-25-2009, 05:11 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
I don't agree. We were given an opportunity to avoid furloughs and only 350 pilots out of over 2900 care enough to try. The numbers obviously worked with 800+ pilots so there is no excuse if this fails except that enough of us didn't give a rat's butt (I don't want to get banned for swearing here 
). If furloughs happen because this MOU failed, the only people to blame are the pilot group. How can anyone expect UPS to give a crap about it's employees when our own pilots don't give a crap about eachother?
). If furloughs happen because this MOU failed, the only people to blame are the pilot group. How can anyone expect UPS to give a crap about it's employees when our own pilots don't give a crap about eachother?Management reads/listens to rising concern about a layoff, sees opportunity to make gains against contract.
Goes to IPA with Layoff or paycut, IPA now boxed in and its Lose Lose regardless of what they do. Layoff we look uncaring paycut will never pass vote and back to uncaring . Reality the company is making the call not IPA
IPA comes up with Plan (MOU) , Local management rejects it and wants Layoff or paycut.
IPA goes around local management to Atlanta to get a shot at stopping layoff. Does a survey of pilots based on Voluntary plans that may be advantageous enough for individuals to take. Company limits value of plans to point that many see them as anything but disadvantageous .
Still win win for UPS and Lose Lose for IPA if it doesnt work.
The company will be responsible for any layoff, they are the ones in control.
This would have been longer and more detailed but this site wouldn't take it.
I have signed up for an option.
Last edited by 757upspilot; 05-25-2009 at 05:12 AM. Reason: because
05-25-2009, 07:02 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: The IPA EB speaks for me
Posts: 529
Just back in the lands of easy internet access- I'd ad that the IPA APC only types should get onto the B&G for 1/2 an hour and read what a few of those retiring under this program/MOU have written. I don't think they are on APC or posted their opines here.
Salty- thanks for the post, perfect timing from the right perspective.
Salty- thanks for the post, perfect timing from the right perspective.
05-25-2009, 07:25 AM
#87
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: kitchen servant
Posts: 47
No one has mentioned this yet as far as I know, but what about the contributions to United Way that many of us have donated in the past. I am sure the time is near when we will start getting all the fliers to donate. I for one hope no one does, and instead donate to the MOU. It might not be tax deductible but it is for a great cause.
05-25-2009, 09:31 AM
#88
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
UPS assured ANC pilots a first of year no layoff.
Management reads/listens to rising concern about a layoff, sees opportunity to make gains against contract.
Goes to IPA with Layoff or paycut, IPA now boxed in and its Lose Lose regardless of what they do. Layoff we look uncaring paycut will never pass vote and back to uncaring . Reality the company is making the call not IPA
IPA comes up with Plan (MOU) , Local management rejects it and wants Layoff or paycut.
IPA goes around local management to Atlanta to get a shot at stopping layoff. Does a survey of pilots based on Voluntary plans that may be advantageous enough for individuals to take. Company limits value of plans to point that many see them as anything but disadvantageous .
Still win win for UPS and Lose Lose for IPA if it doesnt work.
The company will be responsible for any layoff, they are the ones in control.
This would have been longer and more detailed but this site wouldn't take it.
I have signed up for an option.
Management reads/listens to rising concern about a layoff, sees opportunity to make gains against contract.
Goes to IPA with Layoff or paycut, IPA now boxed in and its Lose Lose regardless of what they do. Layoff we look uncaring paycut will never pass vote and back to uncaring . Reality the company is making the call not IPA
IPA comes up with Plan (MOU) , Local management rejects it and wants Layoff or paycut.
IPA goes around local management to Atlanta to get a shot at stopping layoff. Does a survey of pilots based on Voluntary plans that may be advantageous enough for individuals to take. Company limits value of plans to point that many see them as anything but disadvantageous .
Still win win for UPS and Lose Lose for IPA if it doesnt work.
The company will be responsible for any layoff, they are the ones in control.
This would have been longer and more detailed but this site wouldn't take it.
I have signed up for an option.
05-25-2009, 10:31 AM
#89
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 358
Jumbo-
Just wait they will hit us all up for contributions for the United Way. In past years I have got the self addressed stamped envelope from ANC for my money. No way, they can kiss my ass. Their United Way drive is to self promote themselves and their corporate image on our backs.
I will give to the IPA foundation, I know where my money goes!
Just wait they will hit us all up for contributions for the United Way. In past years I have got the self addressed stamped envelope from ANC for my money. No way, they can kiss my ass. Their United Way drive is to self promote themselves and their corporate image on our backs.
I will give to the IPA foundation, I know where my money goes!
05-25-2009, 11:18 AM
#90
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 245
Jumbo-
Just wait they will hit us all up for contributions for the United Way. In past years I have got the self addressed stamped envelope from ANC for my money. No way, they can kiss my ass. Their United Way drive is to self promote themselves and their corporate image on our backs.
I will give to the IPA foundation, I know where my money goes!
Just wait they will hit us all up for contributions for the United Way. In past years I have got the self addressed stamped envelope from ANC for my money. No way, they can kiss my ass. Their United Way drive is to self promote themselves and their corporate image on our backs.
I will give to the IPA foundation, I know where my money goes!
no thanks. I don't give money to UPS to make themselves look good.
and by the way...that guy (SJ) is a snake waiting to strike..don't EVER TRUST him.
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