UPS: MOU numbers
05-24-2009, 03:23 PM
#72
Permanent Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,682
[quote=Night_Hawk;616526]That's an unfair comment. Just because we have had a good contract for a few years does not mean everyone here has been able to put themselves in perfect financial shape. If you have been here or at brand X before contract 2006 you have had quite a few lean years.[/quote
I see your point, but you don't have to be in "perfect financial shape" to donate 10 hours of sick time, or do 1 bid period of RDG. Once again, it comes down to priorities. I see no problem with putting yourself and your family first. But every once in a while the opportunity presents itself to make a small sacrifice to help others who are in an unfortunate position. This is one of those times.
I see your point, but you don't have to be in "perfect financial shape" to donate 10 hours of sick time, or do 1 bid period of RDG. Once again, it comes down to priorities. I see no problem with putting yourself and your family first. But every once in a while the opportunity presents itself to make a small sacrifice to help others who are in an unfortunate position. This is one of those times.
05-24-2009, 04:00 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Brown ones
Posts: 216
[QUOTE=notadog;616534]Would you like some cheese with your whine?
As you accuse others of "greed", you display your bitterness and selfishness.
Those who pick up open time are doing so under the contract that was ratified by the majority. Sorry if you don't like it. It is their contractual right. (I didn't realize that I should limit my earnings so that YOU could upgrade)
BTW...I once flew with a guy who picks up OT so his kid can go to an Ivy league college. Is he "greedy?"[
For what it's worth, I have volunteered for one of the options. I have never picked up open time, line improved, or restored my sick bank. I don't understand those that do, but that's their choice. Just as it's their choice to not participate in these voluntary programs. I can't understand your lambasting him for not participating, but see nothing wrong with those things with which he has issue.
Frankly, I have problems with this whole program, but I'll support my EB and the hostage 300 and hope for the best
As you accuse others of "greed", you display your bitterness and selfishness.
Those who pick up open time are doing so under the contract that was ratified by the majority. Sorry if you don't like it. It is their contractual right. (I didn't realize that I should limit my earnings so that YOU could upgrade)
BTW...I once flew with a guy who picks up OT so his kid can go to an Ivy league college. Is he "greedy?"[
For what it's worth, I have volunteered for one of the options. I have never picked up open time, line improved, or restored my sick bank. I don't understand those that do, but that's their choice. Just as it's their choice to not participate in these voluntary programs. I can't understand your lambasting him for not participating, but see nothing wrong with those things with which he has issue.
Frankly, I have problems with this whole program, but I'll support my EB and the hostage 300 and hope for the best
05-24-2009, 04:03 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 757/767
Posts: 1,128
This is my first post. I've been with UPS for nearly 12 years, and when I was hired I was told by the company that I'd probably have the opportunity to upgrade to captain at approximately 6-7 years.
Well...that hasn't happened, and for the most part, I think it's because of the many pilots in our union that pick up opentime, accept JA's, and do line improvement with the intention of maximizing hours. Every year since I've been here, I used about 20-30 hours of sick time and never once attempted to "make up" the used sick time. In essence...they allow the company to do more with less. I think this is the primary reason I don't have more people below me in seniority and why I'm still an FO.
During the last negotiations, the union announced at one of the meetings that over 70% of us were picking up opentime during negotiations! WOW...talk about chopping the legs out from underneath our negotiating team!!!! What kind of contract could we have gotten if we hadn't been picking up the extra trips? GREED!
Now...many of my union brothers/sisters who greedily took money out of my pocket by doing work that pilots that should have been hired but weren't, are desperately wanting me to "sacrifice" so that they can keep their jobs today.
I have lived within my means. I don't have a vacation house, I don't have an airplane, I haven't been on a vacation in 4 years, I have 3 kids in college, I own an old pickup truck and a van, and all I owe is a mortgage; but it takes every penny I earn today to meet my financial obligatons.
My heart tells me to be a part of this MOU and sacrifice for my union brothers/sisters, but another part of me is angry that they didn't sacrifice for me for the last 12 years. Too many of them were maximizing their earnings potential with the company which enabled the company to not hire the number of pilots they really needed.
So my dilemma now is...should I participate?
I've been with UPS long enough to know they don't care at all about me. I'm simply a tool to be used to make money. I understand that. UPS has no loyalty to the pilots. I really believe this entire effort is an attempt by the company to open up the contract and freeze salaries, reduce retirement benefits, increase health care premeims etc...anything...in order to make more money on top of the profits they already are earning.
UPS didn't invite the pilots to "share" in their obscene profits for years, but now, when times are lean, they want me to sacrifice to enable them to increase their profits today? UPS isn't losing money. They aren't close to losing money. They want to extract more profit, but out of the pilot employees as well as the rest of their employees.
I'm leaning to not participating in this MOU because I really don't think UPS will furlough if the MOU fails. The expense to replace ANC pilots, with the added expense of hiring once this economy begins growing again (many experts already believe we may be bottoming out, and the economy to begin growing again eary 2010) will prove the furlough to be a losing proposition financially for the company. I think they know this. They simply want to open up our current contract to reduce the benefits/salaries of our contract today.
Although I haven't made my final decision, I'm probably NOT going to participate for two reasons: I don't believe the company is really going to follow through on their furlough threat (they will attempt to save face by saying the number of pilots that were forced into retirement from the DC8 were sufficient savings needed to prevent a more dire furlough), and the second reason is that I'm disgusted that my fellow union brothers/sisters were so greedy during the previous 12 years here in their pick up of opentime, JAs, making up sick bank and maximizing line hours that I don't feel a compelling reason to "help them" when they were the ones being so greedy in the past.
My two cents.
Well...that hasn't happened, and for the most part, I think it's because of the many pilots in our union that pick up opentime, accept JA's, and do line improvement with the intention of maximizing hours. Every year since I've been here, I used about 20-30 hours of sick time and never once attempted to "make up" the used sick time. In essence...they allow the company to do more with less. I think this is the primary reason I don't have more people below me in seniority and why I'm still an FO.
During the last negotiations, the union announced at one of the meetings that over 70% of us were picking up opentime during negotiations! WOW...talk about chopping the legs out from underneath our negotiating team!!!! What kind of contract could we have gotten if we hadn't been picking up the extra trips? GREED!
Now...many of my union brothers/sisters who greedily took money out of my pocket by doing work that pilots that should have been hired but weren't, are desperately wanting me to "sacrifice" so that they can keep their jobs today.
I have lived within my means. I don't have a vacation house, I don't have an airplane, I haven't been on a vacation in 4 years, I have 3 kids in college, I own an old pickup truck and a van, and all I owe is a mortgage; but it takes every penny I earn today to meet my financial obligatons.
My heart tells me to be a part of this MOU and sacrifice for my union brothers/sisters, but another part of me is angry that they didn't sacrifice for me for the last 12 years. Too many of them were maximizing their earnings potential with the company which enabled the company to not hire the number of pilots they really needed.
So my dilemma now is...should I participate?
I've been with UPS long enough to know they don't care at all about me. I'm simply a tool to be used to make money. I understand that. UPS has no loyalty to the pilots. I really believe this entire effort is an attempt by the company to open up the contract and freeze salaries, reduce retirement benefits, increase health care premeims etc...anything...in order to make more money on top of the profits they already are earning.
UPS didn't invite the pilots to "share" in their obscene profits for years, but now, when times are lean, they want me to sacrifice to enable them to increase their profits today? UPS isn't losing money. They aren't close to losing money. They want to extract more profit, but out of the pilot employees as well as the rest of their employees.
I'm leaning to not participating in this MOU because I really don't think UPS will furlough if the MOU fails. The expense to replace ANC pilots, with the added expense of hiring once this economy begins growing again (many experts already believe we may be bottoming out, and the economy to begin growing again eary 2010) will prove the furlough to be a losing proposition financially for the company. I think they know this. They simply want to open up our current contract to reduce the benefits/salaries of our contract today.
Although I haven't made my final decision, I'm probably NOT going to participate for two reasons: I don't believe the company is really going to follow through on their furlough threat (they will attempt to save face by saying the number of pilots that were forced into retirement from the DC8 were sufficient savings needed to prevent a more dire furlough), and the second reason is that I'm disgusted that my fellow union brothers/sisters were so greedy during the previous 12 years here in their pick up of opentime, JAs, making up sick bank and maximizing line hours that I don't feel a compelling reason to "help them" when they were the ones being so greedy in the past.
My two cents.
05-24-2009, 04:25 PM
#75
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
We are not eating our young. The company is holding them hostage, pushing for concessions and trying to find a way to make us , the pilots , look uncaring in the eyes of the most junior. We have limited power and ability to stop the company from putting what they considered a liability on the street, and they do consider these people a liability. We are a cost to be minimized or eliminated. We can through the MOU try to salvage something for our people, if we fail it will be because the company engineered it to fail.
). If furloughs happen because this MOU failed, the only people to blame are the pilot group. How can anyone expect UPS to give a crap about it's employees when our own pilots don't give a crap about eachother?
05-24-2009, 04:34 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 653
We are not eating our young. The company is holding them hostage, pushing for concessions and trying to find a way to make us , the pilots , look uncaring in the eyes of the most junior. We have limited power and ability to stop the company from putting what they considered a liability on the street, and they do consider these people a liability. We are a cost to be minimized or eliminated. We can through the MOU try to salvage something for our people, if we fail it will be because the company engineered it to fail.
completely agree 757, times like this it is always interesting to see how people turn on each other. Many forgetting the sacrifices made by others in the past that help them now. while guys like Trashman amplify their delusions of persecution ignoring those who are less fortunate and in need.
05-24-2009, 05:05 PM
#77
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 26
This is no longer about the company wanting money from the pilot group. It is now about a group trying to save 300 jobs and many other moves affecting numerous union members and families. Our union has now provided facts and figures to show that we are overstaffed as the company has indicated and has encouraged us to step up and make this MOU works. Those that are still finding or making excuses are inclined not to take part (will not part with their pay) and nothing more can be said to change their mind. Hopefully, enough will come forward and we will show the company that we will take measure to control our future.
05-24-2009, 06:14 PM
#78
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Although I haven't made my final decision, I'm probably NOT going to participate for two reasons: I don't believe the company is really going to follow through on their furlough threat (they will attempt to save face by saying the number of pilots that were forced into retirement from the DC8 were sufficient savings needed to prevent a more dire furlough), and the second reason is that I'm disgusted that my fellow union brothers/sisters were so greedy during the previous 12 years here in their pick up of opentime, JAs, making up sick bank and maximizing line hours that I don't feel a compelling reason to "help them" when they were the ones being so greedy in the past.
My two cents.
My two cents.
1. I hope you are right about the company not furloughing when it comes down to it.
2. The people that are getting furloughed have not been here 12 years so I think you're directing your emotion at the wrong people.
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