UPS - Thought about Furlough Prevention
05-14-2009, 06:06 AM
#11
Permanent Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,682
S,
Reading these forums and the B&G I think is a great way to stay in tune with what the members are thinking and feeling! Having said that can I ask you the same question I asked earlier on this thread? How much does our company need to make in order for this Furlough threat to go away. I mean if they are making 1.2 Billion a quarter like they did in 07-08 are they still looking at this 131 million in savings from the union? This sounds absurd to me and the MOU does not address it.
Reading these forums and the B&G I think is a great way to stay in tune with what the members are thinking and feeling! Having said that can I ask you the same question I asked earlier on this thread? How much does our company need to make in order for this Furlough threat to go away. I mean if they are making 1.2 Billion a quarter like they did in 07-08 are they still looking at this 131 million in savings from the union? This sounds absurd to me and the MOU does not address it.
Good question. Call BM and ask him.
05-14-2009, 06:09 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
I think that the 800-900 who said that they would volunteer for something need to step up to the plate. This notion that if your in the bottom three hundred that you must volunteer for something is BS. I think its amazing that a company that make 648 million in a quarter needs 131 million from this pilot group until 2011. My only question that I have asked before and is a question that every pilot here needs to be asking is, how much money does this company need to make for this, volunteer based concessions, to go away?
Sorry every pilot in the bottom 300 should volunteer for something, your job is seriously on the line. I happen to think every pilot on the list should volunteer for something just to show UPS the unity of the IPA.
I've heard a couple of guys in the bottom 300 that are so ****ed off they say they would rather get furloughed than volunteer for one of the MOU programs. That has to be one of the most stupid statements I've ever heard. If you hate UPS and the commute to ANC so much, volunteer for a long term VLOA. You are still not working here but you keep your medical, longevity, and jumpseat privileges. Don't let your hatred of UPS get in the way of doing what is right not just for yourself but for the pilot group as a whole.
05-14-2009, 06:11 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 122
Agreed, I feel obligated as one who will benefit from the MOU to participate. I am disappointed and the low number of bottom 300 bubbas I see on the JS board. Perhaps they have already signed up for the RDG, MIL or found a JS partner.
I fugure I can easily live on less money, just think if you survived your probabionary year you would still be at twice the $$ with JS. Will know soon enough.
I fugure I can easily live on less money, just think if you survived your probabionary year you would still be at twice the $$ with JS. Will know soon enough.
05-14-2009, 06:25 AM
#14
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
If you are in the bottom 300 and do not volunteer, how can you expect anyone else to do so. Regardless of the the reasons, and no matter who is at "fault", we are at a crossroads. I believe that 50% pay (for 50% work) plus benefits is MUCH better than $328/week unemployment (or whatever it is.)
In January, everyone in the bottom 300 will be on year 3 (or better) F/O pay. 50% of 134 is 67K plus benefits, for 7 days of work per month. If you cannot survive on that, then get a 2nd job. Or take a LOA and find a better paying job. (good luck)
I believe that everyone in the bottom 300 should volunteer for the entire first year. You are only helping yourself. It is not perfect, but a furlough could destroy hundreds of lives.
I agree that UPS does not HAVE to furlough. Unfortunately, we cannot control what the company does. We can only control what our response is to their actions. In my opinion, the best response is to help ourselves.
PS Thanks to all who have volunteered for one of the programs.
In January, everyone in the bottom 300 will be on year 3 (or better) F/O pay. 50% of 134 is 67K plus benefits, for 7 days of work per month. If you cannot survive on that, then get a 2nd job. Or take a LOA and find a better paying job. (good luck)
I believe that everyone in the bottom 300 should volunteer for the entire first year. You are only helping yourself. It is not perfect, but a furlough could destroy hundreds of lives.
I agree that UPS does not HAVE to furlough. Unfortunately, we cannot control what the company does. We can only control what our response is to their actions. In my opinion, the best response is to help ourselves.
PS Thanks to all who have volunteered for one of the programs.
I understand all the arguments for and against this plan and have spoken to many about the subject at hand! I think faced with the opportunity of getting some much needed time off I think people are going to sign-up for a program that fits their schedule, but to expect that everyone is going sign-up for something is wishful thinking! I think the MOU is a great attempt at mitigating the potential furlough and I am grateful to our Union for coming up with something! I appreciate the time that was spent coming up with this plan.
05-14-2009, 06:31 AM
#15
Permanent Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,682
I think in a perfect world it would be great for everyone to do their share but I have said this before, greed is a powerful thing and many folks care only about themselves. I am on the same team as you and I understand what your saying. I voted on the survey and said no to every program offered because to me the volunteer based program is a concession no matter how you coin it! Company wants 131 million form our group and we are trying to give it to them, volunteer or mandatory, they are going to get what they want!
I understand all the arguments for and against this plan and have spoken to many about the subject at hand! I think faced with the opportunity of getting some much needed time off I think people are going to sign-up for a program that fits their schedule, but to expect that everyone is going sign-up for something is wishful thinking! I think the MOU is a great attempt at mitigating the potential furlough and I am grateful to our Union for coming up with something! I appreciate the time that was spent coming up with this plan.
I understand all the arguments for and against this plan and have spoken to many about the subject at hand! I think faced with the opportunity of getting some much needed time off I think people are going to sign-up for a program that fits their schedule, but to expect that everyone is going sign-up for something is wishful thinking! I think the MOU is a great attempt at mitigating the potential furlough and I am grateful to our Union for coming up with something! I appreciate the time that was spent coming up with this plan.
I just hate to see people cut off their nose to spite their face.
Call it what you want, but it is self preservation. If you do not volunteer, you are not only hurting yourself, but lots of others. Naven is right - a LOA (with medical, jumpseats, sick & vacation accruals, etc) is better than a furlough.
05-14-2009, 06:37 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
I think in a perfect world it would be great for everyone to do their share but I have said this before, greed is a powerful thing and many folks care only about themselves. I am on the same team as you and I understand what your saying. I voted on the survey and said no to every program offered because to me the volunteer based program is a concession no matter how you coin it! Company wants 131 million form our group and we are trying to give it to them, volunteer or mandatory, they are going to get what they want!
I understand all the arguments for and against this plan and have spoken to many about the subject at hand! I think faced with the opportunity of getting some much needed time off I think people are going to sign-up for a program that fits their schedule, but to expect that everyone is going sign-up for something is wishful thinking! I think the MOU is a great attempt at mitigating the potential furlough and I am grateful to our Union for coming up with something! I appreciate the time that was spent coming up with this plan.
I understand all the arguments for and against this plan and have spoken to many about the subject at hand! I think faced with the opportunity of getting some much needed time off I think people are going to sign-up for a program that fits their schedule, but to expect that everyone is going sign-up for something is wishful thinking! I think the MOU is a great attempt at mitigating the potential furlough and I am grateful to our Union for coming up with something! I appreciate the time that was spent coming up with this plan.
With all that said, the bottom 300 have been screwed by UPS big time. That doesn't change the fact that if this MOU fails they will most likely be on the street. If we can't even get the majority of the 300 to sign up for something it just shows that this MOU is going to fail.
05-14-2009, 06:42 AM
#17
Permanent Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,682
I know that we will be lucky to even have everyone that answered the survey sign up for something. Everyone is out for themselves. I have talked to a couple of captains that pick up opentime (full disclosure, so do I) they were not going to volunteer for anything. One guy even said he could not afford it. I politely asked him how much he was going to lose if he can't pick up opentime. He had not even though about that.
With all that said, the bottom 300 have been screwed by UPS big time. That doesn't change the fact that if this MOU fails they will most likely be on the street. If we can't even get the majority of the 300 to sign up for something it just shows that this MOU is going to fail.
With all that said, the bottom 300 have been screwed by UPS big time. That doesn't change the fact that if this MOU fails they will most likely be on the street. If we can't even get the majority of the 300 to sign up for something it just shows that this MOU is going to fail.
If you depend on overtime to pay your bills, you are living dangerously.
Amazing how many guys can't live on $200K+ (sickening, actually)
05-14-2009, 06:46 AM
#18
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
I just hate to see people cut off their nose to spite their face.
Call it what you want, but it is self preservation. If you do not volunteer, you are not only hurting yourself, but lots of others. Naven is right - a LOA (with medical, jumpseats, sick & vacation accruals, etc) is better than a furlough.
Call it what you want, but it is self preservation. If you do not volunteer, you are not only hurting yourself, but lots of others. Naven is right - a LOA (with medical, jumpseats, sick & vacation accruals, etc) is better than a furlough.
05-14-2009, 06:46 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
What most people don't understand is that.... some of the bottom 300 survived first year pay by living off of their equity line of credit. Most have been already tapped out from previous airlines and first year pay here was the sacrifice and bridge to stability. This furlough will affect at least 1,000 pilots here at UPS, so others need to step up as well. That being said, no one really needs to take a pay cut while UPS makes millions and executives are being compensated handsomely!
05-14-2009, 06:55 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
So you think I want to be laid off? Well I don't! You think I want to be bankrupt and have my home foreclosed on? I don't! These are the realities of my life that I wake up too everyday. For you to pass judgment on my life without stepping a foot into my shoes is a joke! What happened to this being voluntary program?
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