IPA UPS agreement
05-02-2009, 02:34 PM
#81
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2
Naven,
I can live comfortably well on guarantee. There is no way I can feed my kids and pay the mortgage on 37 hours though. I also can't afford a VLOA and have no desire to take full time military orders. I am all for helping mitigate a furlough and was relieved to discover that UPS just wanted a 3% B plan reduction and 2008 pay rates.
My question is how am I supposed to participate in these programs as a junior FO? How can anyone expect someone in the 300 to bid half a line? To expect 100% participation is ridiculous. I'd rather have 2008 pay rates and an 8% B plan, which does not really impact my take home pay, rather than participate in any of the voluntary programs.
I can live comfortably well on guarantee. There is no way I can feed my kids and pay the mortgage on 37 hours though. I also can't afford a VLOA and have no desire to take full time military orders. I am all for helping mitigate a furlough and was relieved to discover that UPS just wanted a 3% B plan reduction and 2008 pay rates.
My question is how am I supposed to participate in these programs as a junior FO? How can anyone expect someone in the 300 to bid half a line? To expect 100% participation is ridiculous. I'd rather have 2008 pay rates and an 8% B plan, which does not really impact my take home pay, rather than participate in any of the voluntary programs.
Last edited by ineedajob; 05-02-2009 at 02:52 PM.
05-02-2009, 03:15 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
You got me thinking. 60k is roughly half of guarantee and at first it sounds livable, but I don't think I could do it. I have both of our cars paid off, we seldom eat out, and we don't have credit card debt. I have a dozen other UPS FOs living in my neighborhood so I don't think our home is out of the ordinary either. If I had to live on half pay, the wife would have to work.
I hope there is a tracker of those participating so we know how much cola we are saving UPS. If this MOU goes as planned this would be a benchmark agreement in management/labor relations. The bottom 300 would have not only the IPA to thank, but UPS as well. I never though we would furlough, but when the -8 announcement came I really got concerned.
The company must really fear the ramifications of an OT/JA ban and the move packages of folks to and from ANC. Let's face it, UPS has never had good labor relations with its unions. IF this deal goes through, I will be very proud of my union and my company. How often have airline pilots been able to say either of those?
05-02-2009, 03:22 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
If my math is correct, frozen 2008 pay rates and a 3% B plan reduction until 2012 equals over a 10% paycut! (5% for 2009, 10% for 2010 and 15% for 2011). If you want to participate, you could give UPS back that 10% all at once via a one bid period leave of absence. You get a 2 months off for your money, instead of working the same for less and letting UPS give it to the CEO!!
05-02-2009, 04:57 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 579
05-02-2009, 05:05 PM
#87
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4
I wholeheartedly agree!
Another GREAT program that exists at other carriers (SWA I believe?) but has unfortunately never received traction here is the ability to drop trips into a "secondary" open time pool (down to approximately 50% credit.) If no one picks up the trip you remain responsible to fly it. The benefit here is that those who wish to fly their butts off (for additional coin) are not impacting manning or upgrade times or any of the multitude of common laments against those who pickup trips. Either the flying is covered by the original bidder or it is picked up by someone eager to make extra money. Manning levels are not impacted; the flying is just shifted among the existing crew force.
This has additional benefits to the "dropper" as he can selectively drop trips he deems undesirable (length, day/night, conflict with personal commitments, etc...) Additionally, some months you may wish to fly a full schedule and not be locked into a job-sharing commitment. It's flexibility to selectively drop from 0-50% of one's schedule is unmatched, so long as there is a willing body to pickup what you dropped. At other carriers where this is an option it's my understanding that it's viewed VERY favorably. I hope our EB gives this strong consideration in the future.
Another GREAT program that exists at other carriers (SWA I believe?) but has unfortunately never received traction here is the ability to drop trips into a "secondary" open time pool (down to approximately 50% credit.) If no one picks up the trip you remain responsible to fly it. The benefit here is that those who wish to fly their butts off (for additional coin) are not impacting manning or upgrade times or any of the multitude of common laments against those who pickup trips. Either the flying is covered by the original bidder or it is picked up by someone eager to make extra money. Manning levels are not impacted; the flying is just shifted among the existing crew force.
This has additional benefits to the "dropper" as he can selectively drop trips he deems undesirable (length, day/night, conflict with personal commitments, etc...) Additionally, some months you may wish to fly a full schedule and not be locked into a job-sharing commitment. It's flexibility to selectively drop from 0-50% of one's schedule is unmatched, so long as there is a willing body to pickup what you dropped. At other carriers where this is an option it's my understanding that it's viewed VERY favorably. I hope our EB gives this strong consideration in the future.
05-02-2009, 05:07 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: missionary
Posts: 320
Obviously this is all my opinion and in my opinion this is a must for all IPA pilots. We talk a good game about unity and how we are so much better than ALPA, this is the time for us as a group to step up. If we don't get enough volunteers to make this MOU go through we will have shown our true colors as a pilot group.
05-02-2009, 05:20 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Naven,
I can live comfortably well on guarantee. There is no way I can feed my kids and pay the mortgage on 37 hours though. I also can't afford a VLOA and have no desire to take full time military orders. I am all for helping mitigate a furlough and was relieved to discover that UPS just wanted a 3% B plan reduction and 2008 pay rates.
My question is how am I supposed to participate in these programs as a junior FO? How can anyone expect someone in the 300 to bid half a line? To expect 100% participation is ridiculous. I'd rather have 2008 pay rates and an 8% B plan, which does not really impact my take home pay, rather than participate in any of the voluntary programs.
I can live comfortably well on guarantee. There is no way I can feed my kids and pay the mortgage on 37 hours though. I also can't afford a VLOA and have no desire to take full time military orders. I am all for helping mitigate a furlough and was relieved to discover that UPS just wanted a 3% B plan reduction and 2008 pay rates.
My question is how am I supposed to participate in these programs as a junior FO? How can anyone expect someone in the 300 to bid half a line? To expect 100% participation is ridiculous. I'd rather have 2008 pay rates and an 8% B plan, which does not really impact my take home pay, rather than participate in any of the voluntary programs.
05-02-2009, 05:36 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
The minimum way to participate is by either doing a one pay period JS or one pay period RLG. You would be losing at most 75 hours for the year. That is a 8% reduction in your yearly earnings if you only get guarantee (975 hours) It would be ok to drop the 75 hours so it goes into counting for the MOU and during the year pick up 75 hours of open time. It is a win win, your JS or RLG will count towards the MOU # and you don't lose any pay for the year.
I can do that and see your point now. However, wouldn't the senior guys who do a JS have dibs on the open time? I can see a senior FO bidding a JS line and then getting bored at home with the 3 weeks off at home he'll have. He'd be very likely to pick up a SJU layover or a EWR afternoon turn. If a junior guy did a JS with the intent of building his pay back up with OT he may be unable to get anything. I see OT continuing to be gobbled up and reserves not working.
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