Trash Hauler 1

That's pretty sad. Especially when, since they're over 65, they are not in a window seat. Most of the over 65 guys I've met are great guys, always ready to share a bit of wisdom, offer a tip or just tell a good flying story. It doesn't really say anything good about you that you wish someone ill that is not a threat to you.

L'il J.Seinfeld

They are costing my company a lot of money and are providing very little service in return. It's nothing personal, but the DC-8 is a drain on resources. Also, there are also a few dozen PFEs that will be out of work as well in addition to the pilots that have been unable to upgrade to FO like JS.

UPSFO4LIFE

I have no doubt that most of these guys are great to be around, but the gravy train is about to come to an end. These guys have been getting FO pay for doing absolutely nothing for a long time now. I do not in any way shape or form feel sorry for any of them. If they had any sense, they will all be just fine financially for years to come.

Roberto

Are "they" the 145 front seaters plus the 140 FE's on the DC8 Reference Seniority List?

By the way, in the DC8 back seat, there are 35 (31 pilots and 4 PFE's) who will be 65+ on September 1st. Additionally, by my count, there are 5 under-65 PFE's, and 10 under-65 pilots (not counting those under-65 who were displaced from FO positions).

I've kept track of all Favre upgrade awards, and don't show any "JS" who has been unable to upgrade. PM me if you have a name and I'll check it out.

Trash Hauler 1

Its one thing to not feel sorry for them, its another to express glee that a group of our fellow union members are about to be kicked to the curb. I haven't seen any of the over 65 group salivating over the upcoming furlough. Not really much difference in my book. And no, I'm nowhere close to 60. If UPS really does get rid of the 8 and the FEs disappears into the sunset, that is the way it goes. I for one preferred to fly with an engineer, but times change.

TH1

Luckydawg

I've been flying with guys over 60 that are trying to address the over 65 crowd a bit differently than you might expect. You put the DC8 down and what CONTRACTUAL language is in there regarding engineers over 65. You might think that with no airplane seat equals no job. Read the contract. The only way out is for a furlough. How do you furlough all the way up the ranks to get to someone over 65. They are still trying to figure out how to squeeze the goose for one more golden egg.

Commando

I have to agree that I am glad the DC8 is going away. and I will lose seniority with the front seaters going to new equipment.

But some of these guys were old and senior in 1994! and there still here! And my friends on the 8 have worked 10% of what I have since then. Hands down. and I'm jealous. I want that gravy train to end. And having guys in there late 60's still here is lame. They need to let go.

peredavi

One thing many of us forget or don't want to think about, myself included, is that the "old geezers" were in large part responsible for creating the IPA and getting the contract we have. Even if they weren't personally involved in the negotiations, they were putting pressure on the company to make it happen.
I don't think any of us, when we're 60 or so is going to like having younger guys saying, behind our back, "I wish that useless old man would get lost"
I'm "only 48" and in ANC. I wasn't very happy to see my seniority get pounded into the permafrost by a bunch of "carpetbaggers
from Florida and Calif., but I realized finally that it is their right. No one enjoys getting old in this society, but we can at least be civilized about it.
Pere

UPSFO4LIFE

Actually, as per they union(please call), when the 8 goes away, so do the over 65 FE's. They do not have to furlough to get those guys off property.

757upspilot

You make a very good point. If these pilots who are held in low regard by some had not done the work to get the contracts many who wish them gone wouldn't even have considered UPS as a place to work or stay.
When the IPA was formed 757 pilots voted for the IPA, less than 10 split between ALPA and the Teamsters. Close to 1100 pilots had been hired and trained in the prior two years, almost all who left quit. Threats of termination where a nightly occurrence, poor maintenance was the norm, abuse by crew scheduling was continuous and encouraged by the management group from the ground side. Load sups thought they held control over the flight crew, an attempt to terminate a Captain and do an onsite upgrade of the FO was made because the Captain wouldn't fly an unairworthy aircraft. Words will never descibe what it took to get where we are.